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Images taken with a 2x converter
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Apr 21, 2024 12:28:07   #
photoman43
 
I will add some to my earlier post above. Back wen I was shooting with slide film, I often used a Nikon 500mm f4 P lens with both the Nikon TC 14B (1.4x tc) and the TC 301 (2xtc) attached to my film camera. Resulting images were useable and acceptable if the whole rig was adequately supported (usually with two supports) and the shutter was triggered with a cable release. Focusing was done manually. Support and technique was critical.

Now that I am shooting digitally, support and technique is still important for good IQ images both with and without tcs and with and without cropping. My personal preference would be to add a tc before cropping in post. However, if good support or technique is not possible, then I would likely not add the tc and just crop.

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Apr 21, 2024 12:33:27   #
btbg
 
MJPerini wrote:
I have to admit these appear sharper than I ever would have expected by stacking TC's.
Usually results suffer significantly.
Now a Nikon 400/2.8 will be an exceptionally sharp lens, and the fact that the 1.4 is built inn means it is perfectly matched to that lens, so it is not surprising that that combo will be sharp.
Adding an additional 2x seems to have worked fairly well. I can't tell about critical sharpness but it looks good.

One thing it proves is that starting with a great lens is really important, followed by optical matching of the converter. There does seem to be a reduction in contrast, but I don't know if that is optical or processing.
Interesting
I have to admit these appear sharper than I ever w... (show quote)


The lack of contrst is probably from shooting raw and not really adjusting contrast as my job is sports photography for a newspaper and they prefer limited contrast. Would have to check on whether that would help or not.

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Apr 21, 2024 12:36:34   #
btbg
 
photoman43 wrote:
I will add some to my earlier post above. Back wen I was shooting with slide film, I often used a Nikon 500mm f4 P lens with both the Nikon TC 14B (1.4x tc) and the TC 301 (2xtc) attached to my film camera. Resulting images were useable and acceptable if the whole rig was adequately supported (usually with two supports) and the shutter was triggered with a cable release. Focusing was done manually. Support and technique was critical.

Now that I am shooting digitally, support and technique is still important for good IQ images both with and without tcs and with and without cropping. My personal preference would be to add a tc before cropping in post. However, if good support or technique is not possible, then I would likely not add the tc and just crop.
I will add some to my earlier post above. Back wen... (show quote)


Interesting comments. These are shot with no support hand held. That could be an issue although they are taken with a fairly high shutterbspeed so it may or may not be a factor.

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Apr 21, 2024 12:52:14   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
While I do like your photos I also think you lost some sharpness using all of the things you listed. The photos are not as sharp as they should be. Which of your attachments caused the lack of sharpness I have no idea. I am just saying I do not think they are as sharp as they would have been without the attachments. But it is you who has to look at them. My guess is you also do not think they are as sharp as they should be or you would not have asked.

Yes I did look on download as Rong suggested.

Dennis

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Apr 21, 2024 12:59:27   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
btbg wrote:

Do post an original w/o any post-processing and in the WEBP format. It will appear as a link but will be viewable once the download is used.

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Apr 21, 2024 13:03:12   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
billnikon wrote:
First, you posted in the wrong section.
Second, no teleconverter ever produced improves image sharpness.
Third, combining teleconverter's really makes sharpness suffer, as seen in your images.
Forth, I use a 600mm f4 without any converter on a full frame mirrorless camera that I use for my wildlife photography.
Fifth, I never use teleconverter's because of the reasons I have given.
Sixth, Good luck and keep on shooting until the end.

"Seventh".... Some are not satisfied with anything other than complete perfection.

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Apr 21, 2024 13:08:30   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Delderby wrote:
I'm not a birder, but IMHO I would not bother with the converter - if you must, then PP would be absolutely necessary. Attached is a quick PP - not perfect, but sharper.


Maybe sharper but not an improvement. Lots of artifacts and it looks like you over pushed saturation too.

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Apr 21, 2024 13:17:18   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
btbg wrote:
Whether noise is a problem or not is subjective. Get rid of the noise and you probably hurt sharpening. In my job noise is a non issue as newsprint does not show noise. For your use it may be more important to get rid of noise.


Yes, attacking noise in post will always hurt sharpness - even the best noise abatement software ! So, the best idea is to control noise in the camera !

Yes, newsprint is very forgiving in showing fine details of any kind - including noise......
.

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Apr 21, 2024 13:20:17   #
coolhanduke Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
 
Boy, that’s a difference from the original post.

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Apr 21, 2024 13:30:56   #
gwilliams6
 
The new reality is that the latest TCs, internally and external are excellent optical quality, and top wildlife and sports pro photographers around the world use them all the time, with excellent results.

Just go to any Wildlife and Sports shooters groups and forums and see wonderfully sharp and optically excellent shots made with the latest TCs. It is just fake news that TCs are no good nowadays. The latest TCs and best long lenses are designed to work great together, and they do if you know how and when to use them.

Here top wildlife pro Mark Smith uses both Sony 1.4X TC and Sony 2X TC with the latest Sony 300mm f2.8 GM lens:

Sony 420MM F4? What???? 300mm 2.8 + 1.4 Tele - Beautiful Combo for bird and wildlife photography.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4WA2OglKLo&t=90s

Sony 300mm 2.8 + 2x Tele - Beautiful Combo for bird and wildlife photography.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBNF3xu5w5w&t=436s

Here my 24mp Sony A9, Sony 200-600mm lens and 1.4X TC at 840mm, as kids get pulled by a fast speedboat on Brookings Lake, Manistee National Forest, Michigan, USA. This is a 50% crop in here.

Click on download to see better image quality, even with UHH photo compression here. No noise reduction has been done in post on this image, but I could clean it up a bit with my Topaz Denoise AI if I choose to.

Cheers and best to you.


(Download)

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Apr 21, 2024 13:57:48   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
The new reality is that the latest TCs, internally and external are excellent optical quality, and top wildlife and sports pro photographers around the world use them all the time, with excellent results.

Just go to any Wildlife and Sports shooters groups and forums and see wonderfully sharp and optically excellent shots made with the latest TCs. It is just fake news that TCs are no good nowadays. The latest TCs and best long lenses are designed to work great together, and they do if you know how and when to use them.

Here top wildlife pro Mark Smith uses both Sony 1.4X TC and Sony 2X TC with the latest Sony 300mm f2.8 GM lens:

Sony 420MM F4? What???? 300mm 2.8 + 1.4 Tele - Beautiful Combo for bird and wildlife photography.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4WA2OglKLo&t=90s

Sony 300mm 2.8 + 2x Tele - Beautiful Combo for bird and wildlife photography.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBNF3xu5w5w&t=436s

Here my 24mp Sony A9, Sony 200-600mm lens and 1.4X TC at 840mm, as kids get pulled by a fast speedboat on Brookings Lake, Manistee National Forest, Michigan, USA. This is a 50% crop in here.

Click on download to see better image quality, even with UHH photo compression here. No noise reduction has been done in post on this image, but I could clean it up a bit with my Topaz Denoise AI if I choose to.

Cheers and best to you.
The new reality is that the latest TCs, internally... (show quote)


LOL, Yes, using the latest most expensive bodies and lenses with extenders does give good results in the right hands and the right light .....8-)

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Apr 21, 2024 14:00:58   #
charles brown Loc: Tennesse
 
btbg wrote:
I decided to post these images because of recent discussions about whether or not people should use 2x extenders. I know these are birds, but putting them in the bird subsection will prevent the converter discussion.
The photos are taken with a Nikon 400f2.8s lens. The built in 1.4 converter is being used and coupled with a 2x converter. The wren also has a 5mm extension tube for closer focus.
So, the question is are these photos sharp enough, or should people not use the converters and attempt to gain the extra reach by cropping. I believe that any loss of image quality from using the converter is more than offset by the additional reach and the ability to come closer to filling the frame, but I thought it would be interesting to see where any discussion would go. Those of you who believe that no one should use teleconverters, go ahead and have your say. The photos will be posted in the first reply.
I decided to post these images because of recent d... (show quote)


Seems to me this is another question and/or issue whose answer is "it depends." You do not mention what camera was used. This lens may work great on a camera with a 40-megapixel sensor but might not work as well on my Nikon camera with a 4-megapixel sensor. Again, it depends.

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Apr 21, 2024 14:08:50   #
BurghByrd Loc: Pittsburgh
 
btbg wrote:
Here's the photos


In my opinion there's not enough known here to answer the question. I presume it's safe to say that the addition of TC glass will degrade sharpness; the question is how much and how does it compare to options. Were the shots taken on a tripod, with a cable or timed release? How to evaluate resullts? A real comparison might be based on comparing shots of a test chart, base lens alone, lens with TC, lens w/o TC but cropped (zoomed in comparable to TC) etc. and at some selected distance.

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Apr 21, 2024 14:19:00   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
btbg wrote:
Well, go ahead and try that experiment. I tried to shoot the wren without a converter. That would make it shot with just 400 mm and there is some cropping even with it shot at 1120. So, I don't believe it is possible to crop that mich. I was actually hoping that someone here that is a little compulsive would try exactly that as part of this discussion.


Hand holding @ 1120mm and cropping is not the receipe for optimum sharpness ....

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Apr 21, 2024 14:35:35   #
francosp Loc: Arizona
 
btbg wrote:
I decided to post these images because of recent discussions about whether or not people should use 2x extenders. I know these are birds, but putting them in the bird subsection will prevent the converter discussion.
The photos are taken with a Nikon 400f2.8s lens. The built in 1.4 converter is being used and coupled with a 2x converter. The wren also has a 5mm extension tube for closer focus.
So, the question is are these photos sharp enough, or should people not use the converters and attempt to gain the extra reach by cropping. I believe that any loss of image quality from using the converter is more than offset by the additional reach and the ability to come closer to filling the frame, but I thought it would be interesting to see where any discussion would go. Those of you who believe that no one should use teleconverters, go ahead and have your say. The photos will be posted in the first reply.
I decided to post these images because of recent d... (show quote)


The use of a 2x converter is very personal and depends on result you can accept. I used 2x converter with suitable combination of lens more than once but most of the time the sharpness of the image was effected.

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