Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast

You can probably get a great sale price on Tesla's in Chicago and points north after this winter...

Ruthlessrider

No they don’t, my whole small farm is electric. Not a gas powered anything except my tractor uses fossil fuel.The electricity that power my Leaf is totally covered by the 32 solar panels in my backyard, and I have never had an electric bill in excess of $200.

Ruthlessrider

With that comment I presume you don’t have an ICE vehicle either since there is at least as much written about their failures as EVs.

BebuLamar

Oh I do and I buy them because I need transportation and I could afford them. I like EV but as I said I couldn't afford them so I meant perhaps this is the chance for me to own an EV. That's how much I care about what people said.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

No. Kilowatts is a measure of power, while KWH is a measure of energy. Kilowatt PER hour would be a rate of change of power flow with time.

BebuLamar

There is no such thing as kW per hour because the kW unit in itself has the per in it already. kW is kJ per second.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Maybe I didn’t word it well. A kilowatt is a unit of power (rate of flow of energy per unit of time). A kilowatt hour is a unit of energy. Kilowatt per hour (if it were commonly used, which it isn’t) would be a rate of change of power flow with time. Just trying to make a point. (I agree that 1 KJoule/sec = 1KW)

one_eyed_pete Loc: Colonie NY

There are several on here who seem to have forgotten their high school science class or didn't go to science class. Also, the "K" may be confusing them. Drop the K (short for kilo or 1000). W is for watts like light bulbs are rated. A 100 Watt light bulb will consume 100 watts of power when it's turned on. If it's on for 1 hour it will consume 100 watt-hours of energy. The electric company charges you for the total amount of energy you consume in a month. That's why your bill will show total cost, kilowatt-hours (kWh - how many 100 watt light bulbs for how many hours) consumed and cost per kWh.

one_eyed_pete Loc: Colonie NY

I got a new car last April. I chose the best option for me. I'm retired and my typical daily commute is 20-30 miles round trip. Once in a while we may go on a long road trip. I chose a plug-in hybrid. My electric range is about 50 miles. On the rare road trip my gas mileage is about 48 mpg. My combined range is over 650 miles. I have the cord plugged into a regular outlet in my garage and it charges overnight while I sleep. My electric rate in upstate NY is about $0.16 per kWh. I don't charge it every night and it costs between $0.80 and $1.40 to charge it. I think I have the best of both worlds. My gas tank is just under 1/2 and I haven't put gas in it since June 2023. I have to run it on gas a few minutes a month to lubricate the engine and put stabilizer in the tank so the gas won't sour.

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Here’s a LONG post with some comments of a member of another forum who is spending his first 6 months with his new Tesla. Seems very balanced and informative

“ Woke up this morning to see that the 33 F temperatures in the driveway are apparently causing the battery of the 6-day-old Tesla to require “conditioning” I.e. heating, and it was taking the first 14 amps of the possible 32 to just heat the battery. That ain’t gonna work. I’m going to have to turn into a normal person who keeps cars that we actually drive in the garage.”

“ Everything I’ve read has taught me that you don’t really want to go nuts trying to charge like a maniac (or even supercharge) because those fast charge rates are hard on the batteries, especially non-LFP ones. I did learn last night though that with the Tesla I have, the car burns ~300 Watts any time it’s not “asleep”, and it’s not “asleep” when it’s charging. So while I considered dropping my charge rate to the minimum of the range I have with my mobile connector 5-32 amps, I learned that the 1.1-1.2 KW that 5 amps at 240 Volts would provide might be at least 30% waste, and that’s before getting into battery heating which apparently takes afull 14 amps.”

“ Anyway, back to the charging, if your electric bill is like mine, and you get charged a “peak load calculation” (PLC) which is about 1/3rd the total electric bill and based on your highest hour of usage, you will want to make sure you aren’t creating peaks in your usage. So I want to charge at night because I think even a full ~20 amp usage might create peaks in my usage. My strategy is to “fill the valleys”, but also not charge so slow that there’s tons of waste from the car being always on. That’s the balance. ”

“ So the one thing I am definitely wondering about is the winter effectiveness of short trips. This is one area (short trips) that I really expected an EV to blow away conventional ICE efficiency. ”

“ I have to admit there are plenty of tanks where the Hondas only get 12-13 MPG, and I’ve been looking at the Tesla as being 4x as COST efficient on fuel cost. BUT if this is going to be the norm of 3/4 of the power going towards things other than moving the car forward, that basically eliminates the fuel savings. Now if I setup an ICE vehicle to idle in the driveway to warm up, maybe it too would have burnt the equivalent of 8 miles of fuel if I wanted to compare apples to apples. But that’s just not that easy with the Tesla. It seems that some of the efficiency gains are being offset by creature comforts. and all of that is before adding in the cost of energy wasted on just warming the battery so it can be charged. That’s a totally separate waste item.“

“ I wanted an EV so I could be “greener” as it appears the US government also wants us to be offering these $7500 incentives to buy these cars. BUT, if we just end up wasting even more on our creature comforts like:
warm car when I get in, all that energy wasted when nobody is even using the car
creating more heated interior space to store the vehicle
plowing through batteries with supercharging
mining cobalt and whatever other materials are required for these large batteries
adding more load and spikes to the power grid
All of this seems hardly “greener” and I think the US government is giving away our hard earned tax dollars on the wrong technology. I really believe that smaller-battery PHEV technology is greener, simply minimizing the amount of gasoline used. Yes, they are more complicated, but an on-board generator and power plant is probably more efficient.

There are two opposing arguments for on-site vs remote power generation.

REMOTE: Large generation facilities can be more efficient running constantly and ideally storing energy for whenever demand is required.

ON-SITE: This eliminates the need for transmission costs and loss.

So there’s a balance. With an EV (if not using solar), you are relying completely on remote power generation and adding stress to the grid and having potentially maximum transmission cost/loss. That is my scenario I believe. I think there’s a balance where burning fuel onboard would be more efficient than using resistance heat or even heat pumps (as I believe the Teslas have) to generate heat.

Not to turn this into a political thread, but as I get older and become more jaded begging to believe that our lawmakers are both stupid and corrupt. I like supporting an American company, but think they got the fiscal incentives wrong this time.”

“ I am finishing up charging from 11% to 100% which takes about an hour, but is really fast up to 80%. So only expending about 80-15% would mean only about 150 miles, or 2-3 hours between 30 minute charge sessions. 150 miles per 2.5 hours would be a pipe dream maybe. So 15 hours of travel might be able to get you 900 miles under completely optimal 75 mph conditions. I don’t know. Might be fun to try though.”

“ We took our first “road-trip” in the Tesla to NYC with a full cabin of 5 people. The supoosed range is 271 miles but after about 125 miles to NYC, we had only about 110-120 miles of range left. Leaving Sentry mode on (cameras on for security) took another mile per hour while the car was in a NYC parking garage. So we had less than 100 miles of range when we started our drive home and needed to supercharge. It wasn’t that bad, but would really slow down a long road trip if you need to navigate to a supercharger every ~150 miles. So I think our next new vehicle might be a PHEV in hopes of getting more range for road trips instead of taking a car that’s 17+ years old.”

AlisonT Loc: Louisa, Virginia

There was an article a little while back in the Washington Post comparing gas to EV and the costs. In a lot of places the infrstructure isn't there yet for a long trip.

goofybruce

Red6: I agree with you, but, have a question.... Which came first, the stone ax or the need to have one? How was it developed? Was it first just a stone in the hand, then after a few hands were bitten off, throwing the stone, THEN the idea came to add a handle? Similar to improvements to automobiles... imagine the first ones...hand-cranked, open air, limited range and speed AND NO RADIO/STEREO...

Similar to what will be development of EVs, I think. We can't go directly to a great EV; we will see improvements to what is needed to not get bit (ruin our Earth)... such as get better batteries, delivery of 'fuel', more efficient transfer of electric energy to mechanical energy, etc. which will improve both mileage and efficiency of EVs.

OwlHarbor Loc: Pacific North West USA

I am guessing the cost would be prohibitively too high compared to electric trains using fuel cells.

chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand

There was a comment earlier about why do the EV haters (I am not one but think the current implementations of EVs is not the right one yet) only seem to pick on the negatives of EV. Apart from the fact that it is self evident why this is happening conversely it is also true that EV 'lovers' seem quite happy to forget all the negatives in their effort to justify their own purchase.
Most justify their purchase by ONLY comparing day to day costs ignoring all the negative costs to the environment and all the incidental costs which led up to a day to day cost. One cost not discussed much is the additional hassle in making sure that you do the right things to keep the vehicle going. I have picked a few random things from earlier comments and made my own comments on them.

........No they don’t, my whole small farm is electric. Not a gas powered anything except my tractor uses fossil fuel.The electricity that power my Leaf is totally covered by the 32 solar panels in my backyard, and I have never had an electric bill in excess of $200.........
Of course you have added in the capital costs of the solar installation ? And long term maintenance of the array ? And don't ignore the cost of removing the lot when it comes time to paint the roof.

………and I haven't put gas in it since June 2023. I have to run it on gas a few minutes a month to lubricate the engine and put stabilizer in the tank so the gas won't sour………..
And yet more task loading. You must not forget this because the average joe motorist is renowned for being as lazy as the next person when it comes to vehicle maintenance.

……….mining cobalt and whatever other materials are required for these large batteries
adding more load and spikes to the power grid…………
And don't forget the very large amounts of copper required for the motors and extra power distribution required for the charging networks.

Once again I apologize to those who can only read 2 sentences at a time.