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Cost of Charging an EV
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Feb 12, 2024 08:27:24   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Most home charger is really just an outlet. The charger is built in the car.


Yes, correct, for Level One and a 24 hr charge....

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Feb 12, 2024 08:37:32   #
JimNC
 
Remember the 18,000 to 20,000 you paid more fir a.good hybrid? You paid for your "savings " up front

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Feb 12, 2024 08:49:08   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
JimNC wrote:
Remember the 18,000 to 20,000 you paid more fir a.good hybrid? You paid for your "savings " up front


Maybe, but then again, that $18,000-$20,000, I could have bought an EV outright and then installed the fast charger.

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Feb 12, 2024 09:54:44   #
OwlHarbor Loc: Pacific North West USA
 
It's tough to find out how much an EV is and what effect it has on the environment. EV is not the issue it's the number of batteries that are used on current models. I am reading that Amtrack is moving toward EV train engines using electric motors powered by hydrogen fuel cells. My question is can our electrical infrastructure handle the requirements of full-battery EVs? I have been reading that Natural Gas is even more efficient than hydrogen. I don't understand why there is no talk about increasing the amount of plant life that takes in CO2 and puts out oxygen. I know we talk about how much it costs for lithium batteries and where the raw materials come from but how do we dispose of them? Some have said that to replace some Tesla batteries after 7 years is about 20K so one should add about $240 a month for future battery costs. I don't drive that much and spend about $140 a month unless I drive to family which adds about $80 round trip. Where I work it seems no one is looking at the cost of putting in EV chargers across the US.

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Feb 12, 2024 09:56:51   #
Toby
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I saw a deceptive video about the cost of charging an EV (electric vehicle). The woman said that the most economical place to charge is at home, which is true. She claimed to "fill" her Tesla for $4.36 @ $0.08/kWh. That is not a realistic cost per kWh. My electric company does the same thing. It lists a lost cost per kWh, but then it adds fee after fee until I actually pay $0.33 per kWh.

If someone thinks they can charge their car for under $5.00, that's a big incentive to buy an EV. At my house, that $4.36 would be almost $18.00. Charging at public stations is comparable to, or more expensive than, buying gasoline. That's according to YouTubers charging at various locations.
I saw a deceptive video about the cost of charging... (show quote)


In Ohio my total cost averaged 0.14/KW for the entire 2022. It is the same this year.

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Feb 12, 2024 10:41:12   #
BebuLamar
 
OwlHarbor wrote:
It's tough to find out how much an EV is and what effect it has on the environment. EV is not the issue it's the number of batteries that are used on current models. I am reading that Amtrack is moving toward EV train engines using electric motors powered by hydrogen fuel cells. My question is can our electrical infrastructure handle the requirements of full-battery EVs? I have been reading that Natural Gas is even more efficient than hydrogen. I don't understand why there is no talk about increasing the amount of plant life that takes in CO2 and puts out oxygen. I know we talk about how much it costs for lithium batteries and where the raw materials come from but how do we dispose of them? Some have said that to replace some Tesla batteries after 7 years is about 20K so one should add about $240 a month for future battery costs. I don't drive that much and spend about $140 a month unless I drive to family which adds about $80 round trip. Where I work it seems no one is looking at the cost of putting in EV chargers across the US.
It's tough to find out how much an EV is and what ... (show quote)


Why would Amtrak want to do that? Wouldn't it be better to supply power to the track or overhead cables?

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Feb 12, 2024 10:48:25   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
OwlHarbor wrote:
It's tough to find out how much an EV is and what effect it has on the environment. EV is not the issue it's the number of batteries that are used on current models. I am reading that Amtrack is moving toward EV train engines using electric motors powered by hydrogen fuel cells. My question is can our electrical infrastructure handle the requirements of full-battery EVs? I have been reading that Natural Gas is even more efficient than hydrogen. I don't understand why there is no talk about increasing the amount of plant life that takes in CO2 and puts out oxygen. I know we talk about how much it costs for lithium batteries and where the raw materials come from but how do we dispose of them? Some have said that to replace some Tesla batteries after 7 years is about 20K so one should add about $240 a month for future battery costs. I don't drive that much and spend about $140 a month unless I drive to family which adds about $80 round trip. Where I work it seems no one is looking at the cost of putting in EV chargers across the US.
It's tough to find out how much an EV is and what ... (show quote)


AmTrak already uses and has been using electric motors for generations, those are Diesel-Electric motors powering their trains...now adding hydrogen, great idea.

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Feb 12, 2024 10:49:39   #
Ruthlessrider
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I saw a deceptive video about the cost of charging an EV (electric vehicle). The woman said that the most economical place to charge is at home, which is true. She claimed to "fill" her Tesla for $4.36 @ $0.08/kWh. That is not a realistic cost per kWh. My electric company does the same thing. It lists a lost cost per kWh, but then it adds fee after fee until I actually pay $0.33 per kWh.

If someone thinks they can charge their car for under $5.00, that's a big incentive to buy an EV. At my house, that $4.36 would be almost $18.00. Charging at public stations is comparable to, or more expensive than, buying gasoline. That's according to YouTubers charging at various locations.
I saw a deceptive video about the cost of charging... (show quote)


First, I think your assumption is that when you charge your EV you are charging from zero, which is not the case in most instances. If I run to town to shop and come back and plug it in, because it is under 80% (in the middle of a Wisconsin winter that is about 35 miles worth of travel) I’m only in need of approximately 12 to 13 kWhs. At $.18/kWh (my total usage divided into total cost) that comes to around $2.34, a far cry from $18.

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Feb 12, 2024 10:55:50   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Why would Amtrak want to do that? Wouldn't it be better to supply power to the track or overhead cables?


I don't think AmTrak would want to run overhead lines all the way from Seattle to Chicago or LA to Chicago, that's probably not economically feasible, for them at least.

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Feb 12, 2024 10:59:32   #
BebuLamar
 
Blaster34 wrote:
I don't think AmTrak would want to run overhead lines all the way from Seattle to Chicago or LA to Chicago, that's probably not economically feasible, for them at least.


High speed train run on electric with power from the track and they do travel long distance

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Feb 12, 2024 11:03:17   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
BebuLamar wrote:
High speed train run on electric with power from the track and they do travel long distance


HST's yes, but the vast majority of AmTrak trains are Diesel Electric...

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Feb 12, 2024 11:05:32   #
BebuLamar
 
Blaster34 wrote:
HST's yes, but the vast majority of AmTrak trains are Diesel Electric...


I know but I think if they want to convert them to electric only it's better not to use battery or hydrogen fuel cell. They may have to redo the rails but I think it's worth it. Otherwise keep using the diesel.

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Feb 12, 2024 11:07:31   #
Ruthlessrider
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
In my book, charging is the biggest drawback to electric vehicles. The infrastructure is sparse and it takes significantly longer to do it than it takes to recharge a gasoline or diesel vehicle. The second biggest drawback is the range between full charges (which depends on the weather). And of course the third biggest drawback is the price (even considering the tax rebates).

Add to that the stories of people unable to charge their cars when the weather is REALLY cold because the car can't heat the battery to the point where it will take a charge. A gasoline powered car has that problem much less frequently since gasoline is a liquid down to about -100F. At that point the gasoline isn't the only problem you'll have. I have also seen online comments that say people are unable to turn on the heat in their vehicles in cold weather because it significantly impacts the range.

I view electric vehicles as being suited to in-town driving, shopping, things like that. But in a town, public transportation SHOULD be good enough to get you around and avoid the need for parking spaces on public roads and parking garages. Of course, what SHOULD be and what IS are wildly different things. And all that doesn't apply in small towns and rural areas.

I do a significant amount of driving >100 miles, in all seasons. EVs will have to improve a lot before I will spring for one.

/rant
In my book, charging is the biggest drawback to el... (show quote)


You are right when you say it takes longer to charge than refill. But you are wrong about the ability to charge in the cold. I live in central Wisconsin, and our winters can be brutally cold. I have never had an instance where I cannot charge my Leaf. When it is uncomfortably cold out, while my Leaf is still plugged in in my garage, I get on my app and turn the heat on to prewarm the car. On a full charge I will get 175mi of range in the middle of winter, more than enough for my daily needs, and we frequently deliver meals around our area. If I need to go a lot further I do have a second vehicle (ICE) available. In addition to the discussion of the cost associated with EVs, not much seems to be talked about concerning the lower carbon footprint of EVs over the long run, which is significantly less over the course of the lifetime of the two types of vehicles.

With the current range of EVs I would not, in most cases, recommend one for those with one vehicle to make it an EV. But having experienced living with one for the past two years, I find it interesting that some people who have never owned one can parrot all these negatives. Do you think, just perhaps, there is an industry out there that doesn’t want you to buy or leased an EV?

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Feb 12, 2024 11:09:09   #
BebuLamar
 
Ruthlessrider wrote:
You are right when you say it takes longer to charge than refill. But you are wrong about the ability to charge in the cold. I live in central Wisconsin, and our winters can be brutally cold. I have never had an instance where I cannot charge my Leaf. When it is uncomfortably cold out, while my Leaf is still plugged in in my garage, I get on my app and turn the heat on to prewarm the car. On a full charge I will get 175mi of range in the middle of winter, more than enough for my daily needs, and we frequently deliver meals around our area. If I need to go a lot further I do have a second vehicle (ICE) available. In addition to the discussion of the cost associated with EVs, not much seems to be talked about concerning the lower carbon footprint of EVs over the long run, which is significantly less over the course of the lifetime of the two types of vehicles.

With the current range of EVs I would not, in most cases, recommend one for those with one vehicle to make it an EV. But having experienced living with one for the past two years, I find it interesting that some people who have never owned one can parrot all these negatives. Do you think, just perhaps, there is an industry out there that doesn’t want you to buy or leased an EV?
You are right when you say it takes longer to char... (show quote)


I couldn't afford an EV but since all the bad news coming out about the EV I think now I can afford the EV.

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Feb 12, 2024 11:12:36   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I know but I think if they want to convert them to electric only it's better not to use battery or hydrogen fuel cell. They may have to redo the rails but I think it's worth it. Otherwise keep using the diesel.


Would prefer to see the cost/benefit analysis of such a conversion though. Brightline just opened last year high speed train (125 mph) service from Miami to Orlando with plans for expansion....each train is powered by 4000 hp diesel-electric engines, presumably (word has it although I haven't seen it) the cost of electrifying current and installing new electric track was cost prohibitive.

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