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M43 sensors on smartphones... ?
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Jan 12, 2024 23:48:08   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
BebuLamar wrote:
1" sensor is smaller than 4/3 sensor although 4/3 sensor is less than 1" in diagonal dimension. Go figure.


His dimensions are off.

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Jan 13, 2024 00:11:50   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
User ID wrote:
Reeeeeeeeeally ? Cant nobody read ? I reallize literacy is not rampant around here, but really NOBODY ??!?!?

The sensors in questiin are NOT m4/3 size.
M4/3 is not 4/3 inch. No connection at all.

And FYI "inch" in sensor speak is not a sensor dimension. Its an old vidicon classification.


Yep. If it was actually 4/3” diagonally it would be larger than an APS-C sensor.

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Jan 13, 2024 00:50:52   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
Yep. If it was actually 4/3” diagonally it would be larger than an APS-C sensor.


In the ancient analog TV world, a Vidicon tube used a very small 4:3 aspect ratio area of its center surface to receive the image projected by the lens. So a 1" diameter tube recorded a rectangular image from a small center section of the tube. The size of the tube itself was not an indicator of the size of the exposed surface area...

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Jan 13, 2024 01:14:41   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
User ID wrote:
Reeeeeeeeeally ? Cant nobody read ? I reallize literacy is not rampant around here, but really NOBODY ??!?!?

The sensors in questiin are NOT m4/3 size.
M4/3 is not 4/3 inch. No connection at all.

And FYI "inch" in sensor speak is not a sensor dimension. Its an old vidicon classification.


Yes. Just like a FF and APS-C are both 3:2 in ratio but full frame is 36x24 mm and standard APS-C is about 23.5x 15.6 mm.

I wondered about M4/3 too. I figured that a 1 & 1/3 inch diagonal made no sense. Those old video tube Vidicon standards are confusion to many of us former film photographers who never worked with video (tube or solid state).

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Jan 13, 2024 05:01:15   #
User ID
 
TheShoe wrote:
Are you sure that the sensor meets the m43 specification? Not every sensor having a 4/3 aspect ratio is a M43 sensor.

No need to ask or to wonder about that.The specs are posted near the front of the thread. Its clearly a NOT a 4/3 sensor. Its posted as a 4/3-inch sensor (which is likely also inaccurate anywho).

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Jan 13, 2024 06:39:08   #
dwrcymru Loc: North Wales, UK
 
I wonder if they will implement "Pixel Shift" as Olympus and other camera manufacturers do to claim the higher "Mega" sizes? It won't be very hard to pixel shift a sensor that is used in "Phones" and use AI to remove any awkward movements. Time will tell, maybe.

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Jan 13, 2024 07:48:28   #
MrBob Loc: lookout Mtn. NE Alabama
 
Well, We will be going into page 4 shortly... As I said, I am just a messenger of dubious news. Take a bite, chew it a bit, and swallow or spit ! What I think we can ALL agree on is that we have seen nothing yet in the evolution of the Smartphone... The MASSES are speaking with their money, No matter what the niche market says...

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Jan 13, 2024 08:10:39   #
Nortfish Loc: Port St. Lucie, Fla
 
Hip Coyote wrote:
In the January 2024 PSA Magazine there are two articles dedicated to smart phones. One of the articles is entitled, "The Freedom, Versatility, and Capability of Today's iPhone Photography." The other is a documentary about a photographer's journey towards using an iPhone as a primary camera. Both articles display exceptional photographs. One author points out differences between his dlsr and iPhone 13 ProMax. There is not a lot of difference, but he does point out some situations where the little iPhone simply would not work.

While some may not care or want to ignore the advancements of the mobile phone as a camera, the fact is that it is here and quite capable. While people on UHH can argue, ad nauseam, about FF vs. this or that, IQ of each system, 31 pages and counting on the latest drivel on RAW vs. JPG, the fact is that that the phone is a very capable system. The photographs in the articles far surpass all but a few photos in the Gallery of the UHH. One author notes that the use of modern processing capabilities, including AI and algorithms to reduce or eliminate noise also benefit the iPhone camera. He also notes that the versatility of the phone is amazing...during a course he was teaching people did panoramas, macro photography, underwater photography and light painting...all with the little ol' camera. Of course, the phones cannot do birds in flight well or sports (except video is quite good), but as a general shooter or for travel, it may be all that is needed by the rational open minded person.

In my case, I do not care to use the iPhone as a camera replacement. The ergonomics and the rapidity at which I can deploy the phone camera are a problem. But, that could well be my problem rather than the device. What I do know, and will be teaching to my camera club, is that the iPhone can be a very capable mini-computer when I use a regular camera, edit the pics in LR Mobile on my phone, sync with the cloud and later polish up editing on my home computer. Now I come home from a vacation with nearly fully edited pics, all avail on the cloud with my raw and side car files for incorporation into my beloved LR Classic. Its downright voodoo.

What is clear is that the money behind phones is far greater than the money behind cameras. The computational capabilities, meshing with the cloud and so many other capabilities far eclipse our traditional cameras.

What is a universal truth is that using a camera as an artistic implement is the key to success. To paraphrase the adage that, "amateurs talk tactics while soldiers talk logistics," I believe amateurs talk gear while photographers talk art.
In the January 2024 PSA Magazine there are two art... (show quote)


I couldn't agree with you more. Well said.

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Jan 13, 2024 08:21:35   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Longshadow wrote:
Of no consequence for me.
I replace phones only when they quit working.
I have no idea what's in my current phone,
and don't really care.
It has a sensor.........


Precisely, I believe my current cell phone is 10 years old or possibly more.
Perhaps I will get one of those amazing Jitterbug phones next.

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Jan 13, 2024 09:08:13   #
Tdearing Loc: Rockport, TX
 
It's going to happen, the amount of R&D being spent and the progress made to date underscore the certainty. I bought a Samsung Note 20 Ultra with multiple cameras including one with 108 megapixels. At some point they are going to overcome the depth of view disadvantage. They're not simply phones anymore and not cheap at $1,300, but they are always with you.

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Jan 13, 2024 09:11:19   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
lamiaceae wrote:
Yes. Just like a FF and APS-C are both 3:2 in ratio but full frame is 36x24 mm and standard APS-C is about 23.5x 15.6 mm.

I wondered about M4/3 too. I figured that a 1 & 1/3 inch diagonal made no sense. Those old video tube Vidicon standards are confusion to many of us former film photographers who never worked with video (tube or solid state).
Yes. Just like a FF and APS-C are both 3:2 in rat... (show quote)


The industry started with digital video chips, so they just used the lingo left over from analog tube days... It made things conveniently confusing for marketers.

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Jan 13, 2024 09:31:27   #
dwrcymru Loc: North Wales, UK
 
Yes of course you are right, I could and never will understand the need to spend thousands of pounds or dollars on a phone with a camera that had a few fixed lenses on it where you were tied to an expensive contract to use it.

I recently got myself a second hand OM-D E-M1 II at a great price but nowhere in the manual does it mention making phone calls or contacting your provider to keep it going, ah well, it must be so old it didn't have calling technology, never mind, I have a phone anyway that is hardly used.

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Jan 13, 2024 10:18:48   #
MrBob Loc: lookout Mtn. NE Alabama
 
dwrcymru wrote:
Yes of course you are right, I could and never will understand the need to spend thousands of pounds or dollars on a phone with a camera that had a few fixed lenses on it where you were tied to an expensive contract to use it.

I recently got myself a second hand OM-D E-M1 II at a great price but nowhere in the manual does it mention making phone calls or contacting your provider to keep it going, ah well, it must be so old it didn't have calling technology, never mind, I have a phone anyway that is hardly used.
Yes of course you are right, I could and never wil... (show quote)


Read what Tdearing has to say.... it's inevitable and going to happen whether or not you and I EVER make a phone call... Some folks like to live in caves also... I too have EM-1 and use it appropriately as I do my smartphone. I guess it is also hard to understand the majority of folks on this forum who spend THOUSANDS of dollars on cameras and lenses that cannot make a simple call...

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Jan 13, 2024 10:35:51   #
User ID
 
Real Cameras dont get robo calls :-)

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Jan 13, 2024 10:44:58   #
MrBob Loc: lookout Mtn. NE Alabama
 
User ID wrote:
Real Cameras dont get robo calls :-)


No, and you can't dial 911 either... Embrace both for their individual strengths !

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