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Lithium Ion batteries
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Oct 18, 2023 00:08:11   #
AzYooper Loc: Sun Lakes AZ (Almost Phoenix)
 
SX2002 wrote:
We hear all the time about lithium ion batteries exploding or catching fire, has any ever had or heard of anyone having an issue like this with our camera batteries..


If you look carefully around your town and the interstates and major highways, I think you will see more charred ICE vehicles burned out, than EV Vehicles. No statistics, but just my personal observation. I see a lot of burned cars but never saw a burned EV. Of course, we just got our EV Mustang Mach-E a week ago, so obviously, not too concerned.

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Oct 18, 2023 05:51:50   #
Capn_Dave
 
jackpinoh wrote:
1. Some electrical vehicle manufacturers (GM, Hyundai) have had more problems with battery fires than others (Tesla).
2. Overall, the number of vehicle fires per 100,000 vehicles is higher for internal combustion engine vehicles than for battery electric vehicles. But EV fires are always greatly publicized while other vehicle fires rarely are.
3. While Sony had a well publicized problem with Li Ion batteries in the mid-2000s, laptop and camera battery fires are very rare and are usually the result of damaged batteries.
4. Currently, electrical vehicle, laptop and camera manufacturers include protective circuits to prevent overcharging and over-discharging, more robust battery casings, and advanced battery chemistries.
1. Some electrical vehicle manufacturers (GM, Hyu... (show quote)


You didn't mention the main problem. When Lithium Ion batteries do catch fire you cannot put the fire out. Internal combustion engine fires are easily extinguished. My DJI drone came with a fireproof case to put the batteries in while charging. It hasn't been needed so far

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Oct 18, 2023 06:44:37   #
DaveO Loc: Northeast CT
 
larryepage wrote:
The Nikon EN-EL3 situation was well over 10 years ago. It was well-communicated in my part of the world.


Not according to an article by Nikon, so maybe they forgot to communicate it well to the whole world. I had three batteries on Nikon's list that I exchanged.

In 2005, Nikon reported 4 incidents with the EL3's worldwide, of some short-circuiting and offered free replacement on certain lots.

The EL15's were recalled due to "burn hazard" possibility with short-circuiting.

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Oct 18, 2023 07:39:05   #
hpucker99 Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
WE just bought Li ion powered e-bikes and are following the manufacturer's directions about using these. For longer storage we were directed to remove the batteries at between 50% and 80% charge and store them in a well ventilated location, but not where they are subjected to < than 50 degrees. We even stored them on baking racks for more ventilation and not close to each other.


One of the leading causes of fires in New York City is from the charging of sub-standard e-bike and scooter batteries.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/ebike-laws-nyc.html?searchResultPosition=2

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Oct 18, 2023 07:51:05   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
DaveO wrote:
Not according to an article by Nikon, so maybe they forgot to communicate it well to the whole world. I had three batteries on Nikon's list that I exchanged.

In 2005, Nikon reported 4 incidents with the EL3's worldwide, of some short-circuiting and offered free replacement on certain lots.

The EL15's were recalled due to "burn hazard" possibility with short-circuiting.


That's interesting. The EN-EL15 battery from the beginning has completely redesigned terminals which are recessed and completely unexposed. Accessing them to produce a short circuit would require a major effort. And it's hard to believe that they would have even been introduced without the load-limiting circuitry that was added to the EN-EL3e update. The EL-3 and 3e terminals are just large flat plates which are easy to short out. I currently have cameras that use both of these battery types and am well aware of the designs of each.

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Oct 18, 2023 08:00:54   #
Tdearing Loc: Rockport, TX
 
Don't know about camera batteries, but I did have a laptop battery burn up so its perhaps not a stretch to say it could well happen to a camera battery. The lithium iron oxide batteries are supposed to be much more stable and seem a better future option.

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Oct 18, 2023 08:02:19   #
chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY
 
SX2002 wrote:
We hear all the time about lithium ion batteries exploding or catching fire, has any ever had or heard of anyone having an issue like this with our camera batteries..


Only the poorly manufactured, cheap camera batteries that have the thermal safeguards disabled or non-existent would be at risk of fire or explosion during charging or heavy use. Just be aware of third party batteries you might find on sites like Amazon or Aliexpress - if you buy batteries from the manufacturer of the camera then the risk is practically zero, since it would have thermal cutoffs in place in case the battery gets too hot, which causes the "thermal runaway" leading to bad things. If you short or puncture the battery, the thermal cutoffs don't apply in that case and that will lead to fire or explosion. This is also why Lithium batteries are not permitted on checked baggage as the cargo hold is not pressurized (usually) and the low pressure will cause the batteries to burst and internally short, leading to fire. There have been cases of laptop and MacBook fires in the past but those issues are addressed with newer thermal cutoffs when used normally and not abused (shorts or punctures). As for the Tesla fires you see on many YT clips, that is something else related to poor safety designs of the Tesla's, in all likelihood. Those batteries are under high drain and will get very warm/hot, leading to the thermal runaway. As long as you use manufacturer recommended batteries in cameras, there is nothing to worry about.

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Oct 18, 2023 08:03:54   #
DaveO Loc: Northeast CT
 
larryepage wrote:
That's interesting. The EN-EL15 battery from the beginning has completely redesigned terminals which are recessed and completely unexposed. Accessing them to produce a short circuit would require a major effort. And it's hard to believe that they would have even been introduced without the load-limiting circuitry that was added to the EN-EL3e update. The EL-3 and 3e terminals are just large flat plates which are easy to short out. I currently have cameras that use both of these battery types and am well aware of the designs of each.
That's interesting. The EN-EL15 battery from the b... (show quote)


This information is from Nikon, so whatever works for you. There have been subsequent service advisories. Perhaps you could clarify the technical aspects for their engineering department.

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Oct 18, 2023 08:10:26   #
leftj Loc: Texas
 
SX2002 wrote:
We hear all the time about lithium ion batteries exploding or catching fire, has any ever had or heard of anyone having an issue like this with our camera batteries..


I never have and don't know anyone who has. Urban myth.

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Oct 18, 2023 09:02:10   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
SX2002 wrote:
We hear all the time about lithium ion batteries exploding or catching fire, has any ever had or heard of anyone having an issue like this with our camera batteries..


In 2008, I bought a third party, high-capacity, LiIon battery for a Canon GL-2 SD video camera I used at work. It was the largest battery available for that camera, and therefore, it was heavy. It was also cheaply made!

I had used the battery several times with no issues. A few months after I got it, I was recording some 'B roll' of our photo lab's exterior. The plastic mounting plate on the battery that held it to the camera body split while the camera was on a tripod, outdoors, in a parking lot well away from our building. The part containing the fully charged cells fell to the ground. The uninsulated metal strips serving as leads shorted out, the battery caught fire, and it burned furiously for quite a while.

Since it fell on a concrete gutter next to the asphalt, I just let it burn. It was in a "relatively safe" place. I realized immediately how lucky we were that the thing hadn't shorted out on the camera, or worse, inside, in my studio!

LiIon batteries are fine if constructed properly. I've had dozens of them over the years, and that one was the only bad one.

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Oct 18, 2023 09:15:28   #
chemsaf Loc: San Diego
 
I had a GoPro battery irreversinly swell and become hot to touch. No fire. I investigated an external battery fire. It was powering a timelapse shoot. And I include myself in the "We" as I follow this issue as a chemical safety professional.

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Oct 18, 2023 09:21:26   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
leftj wrote:
I never have and don't know anyone who has. Urban myth.


Look at this video on YouTube where a guy's brand new $6000 e-bike overheats and catches fire during his first ride! There are DOZENS of videos and hundreds of reports of similar and worse incidents.

https://youtu.be/wxr1iXEf9lY?si=z-U7eJyd-9GugBR8

The problem is poor thermal monitoring and management, combined with poor construction.

The challenge is to find products that are properly engineered, properly built, properly tested, and rated "approved" by Underwriters' Labs or CSA or some other safety authority.

There is a LOT of cheap crap on the market.

Of course, ANY high energy source can catch fire and explode if built improperly or used improperly, or hit with enough force. Choose carefully!

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Oct 18, 2023 09:29:48   #
jiminnee
 
Read a report that said one of the very popular higher-priced cars in China is the one that has the most problems...and apparently there are a LOT of them.

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Oct 18, 2023 09:30:51   #
cyclespeed Loc: Calgary, Alberta Canada
 
This is why Apple and I'm guessing others as well ship their battery included devices like iPads, iPhones and even watches with zero charge.

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Oct 18, 2023 09:35:25   #
bobmcculloch Loc: NYC, NY
 
User ID wrote:
Who is "we" ?
When is "all the time" ?


News in NYC, another yesterday, destroyed an apartment with exploding in the middle of the night, bigger than a camera batt but still lithium, BTW a while back I saw a lithium batt video where they opened a AA and got water in it, Big Bang, mighty have been on you tube, not something to play with.

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