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Nikon Z6ii vs. Z50 Shutter Speed
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Feb 17, 2023 01:09:09   #
User ID
 
Grahame wrote:
But doesn't Nikon always display 'effective' aperture as opposed to Canon?

But honesty and accuracy are not the same thing. The only *displayed* f/stops that are trustworthy are at minimum and maximum FLs.

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Feb 17, 2023 01:21:56   #
Orphoto Loc: Oregon
 
Grahame. You are correct. But does it get messed up as you zoom in aperture priority? Im not sure.

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Feb 17, 2023 01:47:00   #
Grahame Loc: Fiji
 
Orphoto wrote:
Grahame. You are correct. But does it get messed up as you zoom in aperture priority? Im not sure.

I'm not sure either as it's something I have never bothered to investigate. My awareness of the difference between the apertures indicated (reading viewed) between Nikon and Canon came about in discussions regarding macro magnifications and diffraction some years ago.

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Feb 17, 2023 02:04:59   #
Grahame Loc: Fiji
 
User ID wrote:
But honesty and accuracy are not the same thing. The only *displayed* f/stops that are trustworthy are at minimum and maximum FLs.

Accuracy is a different ball-game. A 1 stop readout inaccuracy between two lenses of the same manufacturer seems a bit excessive, but always possible.

Hence, the best test is a controlled one using the same lens, same settings on both cameras. Then investigate any differences if found, checking Exif as well.

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Feb 17, 2023 07:06:47   #
RKL349 Loc: Connecticut
 
jcwall396 wrote:
First, let me say I do understand the Exposure Triangle. But I'm having some trouble figuring out why I'm seeing such a difference in shutter speed between my Z6ii and Z50. I shoot in Aperture Priority Mode 95% of the time. I just got a new Z50 and shot some comparison images between the Z6ii and the Z50. Both cameras were set at f/8.0, ISO of 100, the exact same subject, on a cloudy day. I had the 24-70mm f/2.8 lens on the Z6 and the 16-50mm f/3.5 kit lens on the Z50.

Every single image from the Z6 had a slower shutter speed by about half than the Z50 and I can't figure out why they're so different. Ex: On the first image, the Z6ii shutter was 1/40; the Z50 was 1/80. The second image the Z6ii was at 1/60; the Z50 was 1/125. And it went on. While the images appear much the same in terms of the light, I'm concerned about the slower shutter speeds blurring movement in some images.

Any ideas?
First, let me say I do understand the Exposure Tri... (show quote)


Just tossing something out here but I am quite the novice compared to others on this site. The Z6II has in body image stabilization and the Z50 does not. Could that have any effect on how the camera interprets the information?

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Feb 17, 2023 09:44:15   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
RKL349 wrote:
Just tossing something out here but I am quite the novice compared to others on this site. The Z6II has in body image stabilization and the Z50 does not. Could that have any effect on how the camera interprets the information?


No.

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Feb 17, 2023 10:09:04   #
jcwall396 Loc: Roswell, GA
 
Hey guys - all GREAT responses, thanks so much for the ideas and suggestions. I'm working on several of the suggestions this morning to see if I can pinpoint any differences, specifically using the same lens on both cameras in a more controlled environment (shooting a blank wall). I'm also going to take a look at the fine tuning of exposure (I've never used it before). I'll post any results today....

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Feb 17, 2023 10:30:28   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
jcwall396 wrote:
Hey guys - all GREAT responses, thanks so much for the ideas and suggestions. I'm working on several of the suggestions this morning to see if I can pinpoint any differences, specifically using the same lens on both cameras in a more controlled environment (shooting a blank wall). I'm also going to take a look at the fine tuning of exposure (I've never used it before). I'll post any results today....


Unedited JPEGs will be needed, with original EXIF in-tact, and files stored for download.



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Feb 17, 2023 11:09:12   #
jcwall396 Loc: Roswell, GA
 
Just finished a quick test using the same lenses on both cameras. I tested the Z24-70mm as well as the Z14-30mm inside my house shooting a desk (I don't really have a good blank way I can use). And you guys were spot on - the results were IDENTICAL. I tested in Aperture priority, f/8.0, ISO 100, and shutter speed was the same using both cameras. I then set Auto ISO up to 2500 and again, results were IDENTICAL - shutter speed was the same using both cameras. So everything is working perfectly, it was just a difference in the lenses between the 24-70mm f/2.8 and the 16-50mm kit lens.

As lamiaceae pointed out, he has many lenses and they can each be a little different, as can the cameras. So I need to learn the best settings for each camera and lens combination.

Really appreciate the input here!

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Feb 17, 2023 11:53:20   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
jcwall396 wrote:
Just finished a quick test using the same lenses on both cameras. I tested the Z24-70mm as well as the Z14-30mm inside my house shooting a desk (I don't really have a good blank way I can use). And you guys were spot on - the results were IDENTICAL. I tested in Aperture priority, f/8.0, ISO 100, and shutter speed was the same using both cameras. I then set Auto ISO up to 2500 and again, results were IDENTICAL - shutter speed was the same using both cameras. So everything is working perfectly, it was just a difference in the lenses between the 24-70mm f/2.8 and the 16-50mm kit lens.

As lamiaceae pointed out, he has many lenses and they can each be a little different, as can the cameras. So I need to learn the best settings for each camera and lens combination.

Really appreciate the input here!
Just finished a quick test using the same lenses o... (show quote)


Great you got it figured out and you are satisfied. We probably all learned a little by thinking about your question.

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Feb 17, 2023 11:58:15   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
jcwall396 wrote:
......I'm concerned about the slower shutter speeds blurring movement in some images. Any ideas?


The answer is to get more control over the shutter speed. Instead of shooting in A mode, my suggestion is to shoot in M+AutoISO mode, which both of your cameras should be capable of. Despite the fact that you're using M mode, the modus operandi couldn't be much simpler, as follows:-

Assess the scene to determine if exposure compensation (EC) is needed, and if so, dial it in.

Choose a suitable focus point and aperture combination that will give you the DOF coverage that you want. Dial in the aperture value.

That's the trickiest bits dealt with. Now all you need to do is play off shutter speed and ISO against each other.

Just watch out for ISO bottoming out - the camera probably won't warn you when that happens (none of my Nikons do). My safeguard is to aim for a value just above native ISO (probably 100) and be aware when you're hitting the bottom value of ISO. When you're using M+AutoISO you'll see ISO change automatically as you change the shutter speed. If your ISO has bottomed out you won't see it change as you adjust the shutter speed. A static ISO is easy to spot if you're looking out for it. If that happens and you carry on dialling in a slower and slower shutter speed you'll get severe overexposure - but the camera won't warn you it's happening.

Assessing the scene to determine if EC is needed is something you'll have to learn. The need for EC depends on the metering mode that you're using. My recommendation is to get used to matrix metering and learn to spot when it's likely to be caught out - e.g. if the scene is predominantly dark but there are small highlights that you don't want blown. Alternatively the scene may be predominantly bright but you don't want the shadows crushed - snow on a bright day will create that situation. The most common scenario between those two is that you'll be looking to save vulnerable highlights, in which case you'll need a negative value of EC.

To arrive quickly at an optimum set of exposure settings just remember that you're looking for the widest aperture that still gives you the DOF coverage that you want (i.e. not too wide) and the slowest shutter speed that will still be fast enough to prevent motion blur or camera shake.

If shutter speed is not critical (e.g. tripod mounted camera and static subject/s) you have the luxury of being able to choose your ISO, in which case your best choice is the native value - typically (but not always) 100. ISO is the most compromisable setting but as a general rule you don't want it to be any higher than it needs to be.

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Feb 17, 2023 12:04:51   #
jcwall396 Loc: Roswell, GA
 
R.G. wrote:
The answer is to get more control over the shutter speed. Instead of shooting in A mode, my suggestion is to shoot in M+AutoISO mode, which both of your cameras should be capable of. Despite the fact that you're using M mode, the modus operandi couldn't be much simpler, as follows:-

Assess the scene to determine if exposure compensation (EC) is needed, and if so, dial it in.

Choose a suitable focus point and aperture combination that will give you the DOF coverage that you want. Dial in the aperture value.

That's the trickiest bits dealt with. Now all you need to do is play off shutter speed and ISO against each other.

Just watch out for ISO bottoming out - the camera probably won't warn you when that happens (none of my Nikons do). My safeguard is to aim for a value just above native ISO (probably 100) and be aware when you're hitting the bottom value of ISO. When you're using M+AutoISO you'll see ISO change automatically as you change the shutter speed. If your ISO has bottomed out you won't see it change as you adjust the shutter speed. A static ISO is easy to spot if you're looking out for it. If that happens and you carry on dialling in a slower and slower shutter speed you'll get severe overexposure - but the camera won't warn you it's happening.

Assessing the scene to determine if EC is needed is something you'll have to learn. The need for EC depends on the metering mode that you're using. My recommendation is to get used to matrix metering and learn to spot when it's likely to be caught out - e.g. if the scene is predominantly dark but there are small highlights that you don't want blown. Alternatively the scene may be predominantly bright but you don't want the shadows crushed - snow on a bright day will create that situation. The most common scenario between those two is that you'll be looking to save vulnerable highlights, in which case you'll need a negative value of EC.

To arrive quickly at an optimum set of exposure settings just remember that you're looking for the widest aperture that still gives you the DOF coverage that you want (i.e. not too wide) and the slowest shutter speed that will still be fast enough to prevent motion blur or camera shake.

If shutter speed is not critical (e.g. tripod mounted camera and static subject/s) you have the luxury of being able to choose your ISO, in which case your best choice is the native value - typically (but not always) 100. ISO is the most compromisable setting but as a general rule you don't want it to be any higher than it needs to be.
The answer is to get more control over the shutter... (show quote)


All good points, thanks! I do want to start shooting more in Manual mode to have more control over the camera, so your comments are very timely.

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Feb 17, 2023 12:07:28   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
jcwall396 wrote:
All good points, thanks! I do want to start shooting more in Manual mode to have more control over the camera, so your comments are very timely.



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Feb 17, 2023 12:17:32   #
PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA
 
jcwall396 wrote:
Just finished a quick test using the same lenses on both cameras. I tested the Z24-70mm as well as the Z14-30mm inside my house shooting a desk (I don't really have a good blank way I can use). And you guys were spot on - the results were IDENTICAL. I tested in Aperture priority, f/8.0, ISO 100, and shutter speed was the same using both cameras. I then set Auto ISO up to 2500 and again, results were IDENTICAL - shutter speed was the same using both cameras. So everything is working perfectly, it was just a difference in the lenses between the 24-70mm f/2.8 and the 16-50mm kit lens.

As lamiaceae pointed out, he has many lenses and they can each be a little different, as can the cameras. So I need to learn the best settings for each camera and lens combination.

Really appreciate the input here!
Just finished a quick test using the same lenses o... (show quote)



Mystery solved!

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Feb 17, 2023 13:08:20   #
BebuLamar
 
jcwall396 wrote:
Just finished a quick test using the same lenses on both cameras. I tested the Z24-70mm as well as the Z14-30mm inside my house shooting a desk (I don't really have a good blank way I can use). And you guys were spot on - the results were IDENTICAL. I tested in Aperture priority, f/8.0, ISO 100, and shutter speed was the same using both cameras. I then set Auto ISO up to 2500 and again, results were IDENTICAL - shutter speed was the same using both cameras. So everything is working perfectly, it was just a difference in the lenses between the 24-70mm f/2.8 and the 16-50mm kit lens.

As lamiaceae pointed out, he has many lenses and they can each be a little different, as can the cameras. So I need to learn the best settings for each camera and lens combination.

Really appreciate the input here!
Just finished a quick test using the same lenses o... (show quote)


So the 2 lenses have their t/stop difference of about 1/2 stop. Lenses rarely have the t/stop faster than the f/stop so do you have any filter on the 24-70 lens? It seems rather exessive light loss on such an expensive lens,

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