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Animated Chart: The Smartphone Effect on the Camera Market
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Dec 31, 2022 01:37:15   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
alexol wrote:
I have two mirrorless cameras, one is brand new Fuji XT-5 received a few weeks ago, which I'm sure I'll enjoy using. During that time, since I bought my camera, parts of the extended family signed up for some special Verizon deal and took delivery of 9 top-end celphones between them. 1:9.

At Thanksgiving dinner (21 people) and Christmas dinners (2, totaling 32 people, different from the Thanksgiving lot) just one person was using a camera, although just about everyone was taking snapshots with their phones. 1:43.

Simple fact: camera sales are in steep decline, and the ratio of cameras to celphones is increasing exponentially.

Regrettably, the "GROWING number of YOUNG photographers using Sony and other mirrorless camera's to do professional presentations" - which I'm sure is correct - represents a miniscule drop in a very large bucket.

This conversation isn't about image quality - some of the phots on this site are spectacular, others would be an embarrassment to a Kodak Brownie user - but is simply referring to camera sales volume, nothing else.

Dedicated cameras will be around for a while for specific purposes, but "around" almost certainly won't be long a time, and probably shorter than many of us think.
I have two mirrorless cameras, one is brand new Fu... (show quote)


And of those 9 people with cellphones, before cellphone cameras, 3 of them might have had P&S cameras, the other 6 wouldn’t have taken photos and you might have had a DSLR. Technically you could say more people than ever have cameras because almost every cellphone is a camera. Basically you can break it down into three groups. First there’s your basic snap shooter. These people bought P&S cameras. These sales are dead. Unless you’re buying something like an Olympus TG-6 for ruggedness and waterproofing there is no reason to buy a P&S camera. This was by far the largest segment of camera sales and they no longer exist. The sales I mean, the group is actually much larger because so many people are taking cellphone pics that never would have bought a camera. The next segment are the “lite” hobbyists. These are the people that always wanted a “real” camera so they bought one whatever entry model APS-C DSLR kit from a big box store and then would break it out and use it 4-5 times a year on holidays and family functions. This section has shrunk. Some have gone to cellphones and some have gone mirrorless but those entry level mirrorless kits are twice as much as DSLR kits. Then there’s the serious amateurs and professionals. Some aspects of professional photography have shrunk or disappeared but some are growing, most related to content creation. The demand for internet content is huge, and yes, some people are creating content and doing vlogs on cellphones, but more and more those vloggers want to improve their product and have more control of the process so they’re going from cellphones to mirrorless cameras that are great at still photos and video.

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Dec 31, 2022 05:16:15   #
Old Coot
 
alexol wrote:
It should be clear by now that, long term, there IS no future for cameras as we know them today.

The young person who has any interest in conventional camera hardware is definitely a rare animal.

On a recent trip to a particularly touristy area in Switzerland, I made an effort to see who was using what: a surprisingly large proportion of Japanese tourists were using Fuji X100v, a small number of Canon/ Nikon/Sony mirrorless and one poor soul looking like a refugee from photography boot camp with a big bag of gear, and not one but two tripods.

Oh yes, and the vast, vast majority waving cellphones around.

Almost all were taking photos of themselves and their friends with some of the world's most spectacular scenery in the background.

Talking to one group, someone said "I can look up beautiful scenic images online, or buy a book, or a print for my wall, but WE may never be here again".

Hard to argue with that...
It should be clear by now that, long term, there I... (show quote)






if your second paragraph were indeed true then why is it taking so long to deliver MY new camera

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Dec 31, 2022 05:17:52   #
Old Coot
 
Bill 45 wrote:
You are right. I am old film camera person(77 years old.) It becoming harder and harder to fine the right kind of film one wants to use. Add to that fine a good place to have your film made into pictures. Yes, you have Wallmark and
Wallgreen, I had at both places film get lose or I end up with someone else pictures. No one talk about the cost of using a smartphone and that in less than year today smartphone will end up in the trash can. So as long as I can; I will keep using film camera.


Yep
Can't even find any good Tin Type material out there

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Dec 31, 2022 05:19:06   #
Old Coot
 
alexol wrote:
I can't think of any good reason why, but for whatever reason, using a film camera is just so very satisfying in a way that a digital camera is not.

Maybe it's similar to the difference between vinyl albums and CDs. Somehow, even the very highest definition digital version - and there are formats out there that blow the doors off CDs - just don't sound as good as an analogue recording.

Sometimes - many times - it is is good to be old.


Always better to be old than the alternative

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Dec 31, 2022 05:29:36   #
Old Coot
 
JeffL wrote:
Look, it is really quite simple. A lot of people, in every age group, spend way too much time on their phones. Texting, Tik Tok, emails, and actually talking to other people. So, having a handy camera which takes decent photos on the device you carry constantly means you don't have to carry another device to take photos. For 99% of the smartphone users picture quality and all the things you can do with a standalone camera are not major factors, recording events and places in your life is. And, if the photos are decent quality all the better. The smartphone camera technology is just a convenience factor for most people. And, they don't have to learn more than point and shoot.
Look, it is really quite simple. A lot of people,... (show quote)


Who are we to say they are spending way too much time on their phones. None of mine nor your business.
just hope they are not distracted and have an accident

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Dec 31, 2022 09:10:26   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
LFingar wrote:
I wouldn't worry about the cellphone replacing "real" cameras. After all, look at all the claims that have been made that the horseless carriage would replace the horse. Like that could ever happen!
Gotta go! Have to drive over to the farm supply to get grain for the horses.


Funny back in the day poor folks owned horses and rich folks owned horseless carriages. Now poor folks own horseless carriages and rich folks own horses. Lol. Got to go to TSC to get alfalfa cubes for my older horse. Lol. Not rich horse poor

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Dec 31, 2022 10:16:25   #
Mickey Jetpur Loc: California
 
jerold222 wrote:
An interesting perspective. This will really add fuel to the conversation about the future of Cameras.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/charting-the-smartphone-effect-camera-market/?utm_source=join1440&utm_medium=email


I guess when cellphones can take pics with a long lens and very sharp pictures and portraits, sharp sport events, that’s when a camera will become obsolete. Until then we can happily spend our money on expensive cameras and lenses!!

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Dec 31, 2022 13:41:09   #
Burkley Loc: Park City
 
I think the point and shoot camera is near dead. But a sophisticated camera allows me, with no artistic talent, to create well beyond anything that a cell phone can do. I use my cell phone camera all the time. Sometimes I just don’t feel like carrying gear. But my nice gear allows me and others like me to create something beautiful. That desire won’t change.

In and Out is a great burger joint when on the road. I still like a nice place for Friday night.

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Dec 31, 2022 14:33:19   #
Urnst Loc: Brownsville, Texas
 
photon-collector wrote:
Totally agree, alexol. When you get old, film, analog vs digital, vinyl records, tube-type amplifiers, and smoking a pipe, each provide a level of simple enjoyment. "Slow down, you move too fast. Gotta make the morning last."



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Dec 31, 2022 18:40:16   #
cahale Loc: San Angelo, TX
 
alexol wrote:
It should be clear by now that, long term, there IS no future for cameras as we know them today.

The young person who has any interest in conventional camera hardware is definitely a rare animal.

On a recent trip to a particularly touristy area in Switzerland, I made an effort to see who was using what: a surprisingly large proportion of Japanese tourists were using Fuji X100v, a small number of Canon/ Nikon/Sony mirrorless and one poor soul looking like a refugee from photography boot camp with a big bag of gear, and not one but two tripods.

Oh yes, and the vast, vast majority waving cellphones around.

Almost all were taking photos of themselves and their friends with some of the world's most spectacular scenery in the background.

Talking to one group, someone said "I can look up beautiful scenic images online, or buy a book, or a print for my wall, but WE may never be here again".

Hard to argue with that...
It should be clear by now that, long term, there I... (show quote)


Next to last sentence: With any luck at all, you won't be there again. Those of us not looking for a "selfie" backdrop would appreciate it.

Reply
Dec 31, 2022 21:54:43   #
smf85 Loc: Freeport, IL
 
alexol wrote:
It should be clear by now that, long term, there IS no future for cameras as we know them today.

The young person who has any interest in conventional camera hardware is definitely a rare animal.

On a recent trip to a particularly touristy area in Switzerland, I made an effort to see who was using what: a surprisingly large proportion of Japanese tourists were using Fuji X100v, a small number of Canon/ Nikon/Sony mirrorless and one poor soul looking like a refugee from photography boot camp with a big bag of gear, and not one but two tripods.

Oh yes, and the vast, vast majority waving cellphones around.

Almost all were taking photos of themselves and their friends with some of the world's most spectacular scenery in the background.

Talking to one group, someone said "I can look up beautiful scenic images online, or buy a book, or a print for my wall, but WE may never be here again".

Hard to argue with that...
It should be clear by now that, long term, there I... (show quote)


For casual photography, e.g. snapshots, the cell phone is currently superior to a point n’ shoot camera. However there are physics limitations - Heisenberg uncertainty and the quantum mechanics of photon capture - that will prevent a cell phone camera from surpassing the dedicated camera using the same technology. A current cell phone camera can probably produce images superior to a first generation DSLR camera. It can’t outdo a current DSLR let alone a top mirrorless device.

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Dec 31, 2022 22:14:10   #
LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY
 
smf85 wrote:
For casual photography, e.g. snapshots, the cell phone is currently superior to a point n’ shoot camera. However there are physics limitations - Heisenberg uncertainty and the quantum mechanics of photon capture - that will prevent a cell phone camera from surpassing the dedicated camera using the same technology. A current cell phone camera can probably produce images superior to a first generation DSLR camera. It can’t outdo a current DSLR let alone a top mirrorless device.


True, but technology has this rather annoying habit of constantly changing and improving. I have a 2Tb back-up drive that gets lost in my shirt pocket. Not long ago people would have laughed if you said that was possible. Photo technology is going to change. Cameras are going to change. Count on it. Maybe the cellphone camera, or something similar is the future. Maybe not. Whatever is coming next is going to be different then what we have now, and better besides. You can count on that also.

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Dec 31, 2022 23:14:17   #
smf85 Loc: Freeport, IL
 
LFingar wrote:
True, but technology has this rather annoying habit of constantly changing and improving. I have a 2Tb back-up drive that gets lost in my shirt pocket. Not long ago people would have laughed if you said that was possible. Photo technology is going to change. Cameras are going to change. Count on it. Maybe the cellphone camera, or something similar is the future. Maybe not. Whatever is coming next is going to be different then what we have now, and better besides. You can count on that also.


Now that I think of it a camera-cell device is certainly possible. Meaning a device with a standard sized lens and sensor coupled to a cell phone back. Takes pictures with the dedicated camera section then drops the image to a cell phone part. Maybe from the from the front it might look like a Nikon Z30 and from the back an Android or Apple phone.

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Jan 1, 2023 08:05:50   #
outdoorcat
 
jerold222 wrote:
An interesting perspective. This will really add fuel to the conversation about the future of Cameras.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/charting-the-smartphone-effect-camera-market/?utm_source=join1440&utm_medium=email


Sure, smartphones out sell cameras. It now is almost a necessity. Cameras on smartphones are primarily used for snapshots.
Smartphones do possess abilities to create artistic shots, but truly are short on what a dedicated camera can produce.
I can't imagine replacing my camera with a smartphone, although I do use it occasionally for snaps when my camera is not handy.

There are things that I just can't do with my smartphone that I can do with my camera.

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Jan 1, 2023 09:09:35   #
smf85 Loc: Freeport, IL
 
outdoorcat wrote:
Sure, smartphones out sell cameras. It now is almost a necessity. Cameras on smartphones are primarily used for snapshots.
Smartphones do possess abilities to create artistic shots, but truly are short on what a dedicated camera can produce.
I can't imagine replacing my camera with a smartphone, although I do use it occasionally for snaps when my camera is not handy.

There are things that I just can't do with my smartphone that I can do with my camera.


I think we might see iCamera’s in the future - similar to a cell service connected tablet (iPad) only a camera. You would use it like a phone/tablet to take pictures or you could use a mfr. app to use it like a dedicated camera.

Or perhaps a fully integrated camera run off the phone and Bluetooth connected.

Lens costs wouldn’t change but a camera body without buttons would be significantly cheaper to produce. So much so that the phone body probably wouldn’t be more expensive than a non-phone body. Meaning you could see options in the future that were available as dedicated cameras or as camera phones.

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