burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

The fact is that Apple's game is innovation. They intentionally "eat their own children" every so often by completely changing the hardware, or the operating system, or the connectors, or something else. They are not bound by corporate license agreements and "tradition," so they are usually the first to popularize a new technology.

What that means is, they know you are going to abandon your old technology in five to seven years, rather than significantly upgrade it. My own experience is that by the time 5-7 years roll by, my Mac or iPhone won't run all the new software I want it to run, or it is no longer safe to keep on the Internet.

I have a perfectly good old 2010 Mac mini that runs older operating systems just fine. But those systems are not safe to connect to the network! So its network card has been disabled and I run it in standalone mode only when I need, say, an older copy of Epson Scan with Digital ICE. That same computer does not have the hardware resources (an Apple Metal-compatible graphics chip) to run versions of Photoshop or Lightroom Classic released after 2017.

My 2013 iMac runs great, after I upgraded it (with painstaking hassle) in 2019 to a 2TB SSD and 16GB RAM, but it's about to lose security updates to the OS, and it is probably no longer supported at all on the hardware side. So if it dies, it dies. I'll get a new Mac and give my current one to my wife (she uses the iMac now).

I like stuff I don't have to mess with very often. I choose products that run well and last a long time with little or no maintenance. Macs and iPhones fit that bill. So do Toyota Priuses and Lumix cameras.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Well, you won’t have to mess with any of the new machines - almost any failure related to the the DRAM, CPU or SSD will likely require the replacement of the entire MB, the cost of which will likely make it untenable to repair, and although not regularly, those components do fail. And what happens when you reach the end of life of the write/erase cycles on the SSD? Can you say (expensive) disposable computer? Remember when things used to be repairable?

jimpitt

I do not use any apple products out of general principal. They are not good corporate citizens with philanthropy close to zero. Microsoft on the other hand gives billions including the current needs in the Russian invasions of the innocent.
Typically, among comments from a few friends, apple has all sorts of quirks. Why deal with it? MS works just fine.
Thanks.

jlg1000 Loc: Uruguay / South America

** ANSWERING BETWEEN LINES **

There are benefits of soldered components on motherboards and no socketed components.

> Shorter distances between components means each bit and byte has less conductor length to travel. Even at near-light speed, that adds up to faster performance. For every eleven inches of conductor, it takes a nanosecond for a signal to traverse it. With trillions of bits moved, condensing space saves time.

** REPLY: the Mac Pro uses RAM modules running at 2933 MHz. At that speed, the pulse length is 10 cm or 4" long. So a couple of mm, do not affect speed. Speed is set by clock frequency, not travel time.

**In reality, the pulse length is even longer, but I didn't bother to simulate that in Altium.

> Connections are generally more secure. They can't come apart due to vibration, shock, or torsion. I still remember buying three Power Computing Mac clones for a department I managed in 1997. All three were dead on arrival! I opened them up and reseated the riser cards, and they worked fine for a while. Every time I moved one, I had to reseat those cards because the chassis were so flimsy.

** REPLY: not true. There are standards developed to specify connectors for every imaginable environment, from laptops to spacecraft and even weapons systems. For example, the ABS braking computer in your car is connected to the main computer via connectors... just imagine what would happen to you if that connectors would somehow fail.

** In my 30 years experience in heavy industry, I've seen more failed solder connection than socketed ones.


> When things can't come apart, they tend to work better and last longer. Apple has had tons of repair issues due to improperly matched third party socketed RAM in older models, for instance. I've run into that several times when friends asked me to troubleshoot crashing and freezing issues. 20 years ago, that was a MAJOR issue where I worked. I found mis-matched RAM in 13 Macs! The IT tech didn't understand wait states and RAM speeds.

** REPLY: The reverse is true. If you can substitute failed components by spare parts, the equipment will last longer.

** Also, RAM modules could be keyed to avoid mismatch (typical industrial solution)

** In the power utility I've worked lastly, there were electronic systems (jeah, could be called computers) that are running 24/7 since 1970. Yes, some components (cards, sensors, etc.) have failed... easy fix: pull out the dead, plug in the new. I've someboud barely suggests - even as a joke - to solder any of those components, the poor soul will be instantly fired !

> Buying what you WILL need, "up front," forces you to consider your needs 3-5 years down the road.[/quote]

** REPLY: Wha.. (3-5 years) ?
My (at home, at work it is slighty different) policy is to:
a) every 5 years buy new computer(s). Specs are at the economical "elbow"
b) the 5 years old computers get relegated to secondary work or maybe given to my wife or chidren
c) the 10 years old computers get relegated to terciary work, like system testing, makeshift DVR, intermediate 3D printer control, etc.
d) the 15 year old computers get relegated to the "cold reserve" for when I need to perform experiments, temporary solutions, parts, etc.

** yes, I still have some computers of 2002 which I resurrect from time to time. I've even hacked some of them to accomodate more memory as originaly designed.

My *work* travel laptop is a 12 years old Toshiba Tecra, which is built like a tank and runs Ubuntu 22.04 like a charm. I've changed the battery trice (about $30 a pop) and replaced the HDD (failed some time ago) with a SDD (about $70). Also increased the RAM to 8GB (about $30).

Bottom line: the idea behind glueing and soldering everything together is not to make a better product, but to *avoid* maintenance and force the consumer to buy new units.

Case in point: for the 2nd gen iPhone, Steve Jobs *insisted* in developing screws that could not be unscrewed by any known screwdriver. I don't belive that the purpose of that was to improve quality.



*** REPLY: No, a thousand times no. Apple's game is PROFIT as it is mine and everybody's else. They found a way to make profit by convincing customers to buy propietary products that cannot be upgraded nor serviced.

jimpitt

Prius and Lumix? Really? Man, you have been lucky.
Consumer satisfaction surveys by both CR and PEW do not agree with you on both of these.
They are both the cheapest in their particular markets, so you get what you pay for.

kb6kgx Loc: Simi Valley, CA

"unscrewt"?

That is a real word?

kb6kgx Loc: Simi Valley, CA

"Cheap" in cost does not always equate with lower quality, and "expensive" does not always mean higher quality.

Genrally, though, it is true, you DO get what you pay for. But that isn't across the board true in every case.

jlg1000 Loc: Uruguay / South America

Ahhh... well I guess I made taht up. It shoud read "unscrewed".

That happens when you type too fast...

Edited

redlegfrog

I'm not even going to mention the millions (an exaggeration) of dollars in adapters purchased through the years!

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

Lumix high end (pro) gear is solid as a rock. I have used mine in the pouring rain, then the direct sun in 95°F heat on the same day, for a 50 minute video with NO overheating, and more. No problems. My friend's Canon 5DIII overheated in less than 20 minutes, and he was afraid to get it wet on the same shoot.

I am a 45-year Consumer Reports subscriber. Prius is at the TOP of Consumer Reports for reliability and overall owner satisfaction. They will last at least 200,000 miles with proper care. We own three of them and a Lexus ES 300h hybrid. (Two others we had were totaled by a drunk in an F150 and a teen in a Civic on her phone.) Priuses are the least costly to drive of any cars we have ever owned.

I consider cars to be holes in the road we have to throw money into. A GM full-size luxury car we inherited when my Dad died cost almost twice as much to repair from 94,000 to 139,000 miles than both of our Priuses did for a full 120,000 and 110,000 each. It was a piece of $#!†. One of those two 2009 Priuses is still going with 194K. It is still healthy and my kid commutes to UNCG in it for an hour round trip.

Here's the summary details for my wife's Prius v — and yeah, the radio IS garbage. Other than that, it's a fine, versatile car. It's not sporty. It IS practical.

(Download)


(Download)

BebuLamar

Sometimes years ago I liked the Apple because they looked good. Now I don't think they look good any more. I don't think I like their keyboard. The fact that they keep changing processor I don't like that and now they make computers that can't be upgraded that even worse.
My current desktop is 12 years old and I don't intend to replace it before 2025. Yes it does have a floppy disk drive. I am not dumping old stuff and go with the new stuff. I guess I got that from my dad. When I was born more than 67 years ago my dad bought a Marelli fan to keep his son cool and it's still being used today.

jimpitt

Sorry if I offended you.
However you are very wrong on your statistics based on several surveys.
Consumer Reports (I also read regularly) is very good about reporting on vacuum cleaners, wash detergents, and electric screwdrivers, etc; but they know nothing about cars or major appliances.

jimpitt

Mr.: If you own three Priuse's, sir, you need to re-think your "car" priorities and consider a better life. Prius' are so lightweight that they are FEDERAL DOT warned to be careful on the highway as blowing away with just moderate winds. Also, if you hit a pothole, the undercarriage is so poor (weak) that you will need to repair before driving safely.
Sorry about your radio.

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

Having driven Prii since 2005, I never had much use for the radio although I never had much use for any radio. Didn't play my style of music. The one I got in 2017 connects to my iPhone so I can play my music and ignore the radio part. The other thing I don't care for is the GPS. The Prius is the only car I ever had with a GPS but I suspect most of the early ones were pretty much the same. It tells you where you are OK, but to find out how to get where you want to go you have to (1) enter an address (complete with street number) and (2) you can't enter a business name. Also the GPS map is on a disk under the seat. When they move the roads, your map is useless. You can buy a new disk with an updated map but when I checked they wanted something like $250 for one. Google maps does a much better job. So to build it into the car you have to have internet connectivity, another subscription cost. The best thing would be to just have your phone connect to the car and show the map and the directions. New cars probably have that but I drive old cars until they won't go any more or until the maintenance cost gets too high or until the new cars have better safety features (I'm gettin' old).

Although my Prius is still running fine (52mpg averaged over 67K miles)(mileage is seasonally variable due to use of heat/AC and the addition of ethanol to the gas in the winter which drops the mileage noticeably [~10-15%]), I'm going to have to get something new. Probably not a Prius. With my arthritis getting advanced, it's tough to bend over to get into the car. I'll have to get something taller. I had no problem with my pickup truck (except for the 12-15mpg, 7mpg when the snow plow was on).

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

The Prius is OK, but CR knows nothing about cars in my opinion. They’re real contribution is the annual car buyer’s guide which lists the base price and cost of options that the dealer pays - good info to have when you’re negotiating a purchase. Also most reliability reports are not useful. They may list the number of “trouble areas”, but that doesn’t tell the real cost of ownership. Better information is the cost of most replaced items and any really expensive repairs with associated service bulletins. 10-15 small issues may not be a deal killer, but a reputation for 1 or 2 high $ repairs very well might.