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Researchers show that global warming happened just as fast in the past as today
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Aug 5, 2022 06:15:53   #
dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida
 
Yes just as fast but with the aid of massive volcanic eruptions or catastrophic hit by a huge space rock. We have ignored the CO2 build-up for far too long ... now the weather extremes are or reward.

The big chance to turn it around was stolen by Baby Bush ... Al Gor would have started rehabilitation of our system but it was not profitable.

You can go to the polls to vote... driving you General Motors EV1 1996-99, killed and shredded at the demands of the petroleum industry. Electric street cars were replaced by carbon dioxide belching Busses by GM's political bribery. Safe nuclear Thorium Reactors were buried in favor of bomb-producing high-pressure dangerous inefficient reactors we have today. In the USA we still restrict them... and other nations are developing them ...China.

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Aug 5, 2022 06:47:02   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
dpullum wrote:
Yes just as fast but with the aid of massive volcanic eruptions or catastrophic hit by a huge space rock. We have ignored the CO2 build-up for far too long ... now the weather extremes are or reward.

The big chance to turn it around was stolen by Baby Bush ... Al Gor would have started rehabilitation of our system but it was not profitable.

You can go to the polls to vote... driving you General Motors EV1 1996-99, killed and shredded at the demands of the petroleum industry. Electric street cars were replaced by carbon dioxide belching Busses by GM's political bribery. Safe nuclear Thorium Reactors were buried in favor of bomb-producing high-pressure dangerous inefficient reactors we have today. In the USA we still restrict them... and other nations are developing them ...China.
Yes just as fast but with the aid of massive volca... (show quote)


Unfortunately thorium reactors are no answer either, as they require U-232 for burnup, which is extremely radiotoxic and makes fuel manufacture, storage and reprocessing extremely challenging. Thorium also forms a stable isotope that is very difficult to break down.

Here is an excellent and detailed paper


ยท
https://www-pub.iaea.org/mtcd/publications/pdf/te_1450_web.pdf

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Aug 5, 2022 06:52:32   #
WNYShooter Loc: WNY
 
kymarto wrote:
Unfortunately thorium reactors are no answer either, as they require U-232 for burnup, which is extremely radiotoxic and makes fuel manufacture, storage and reprocessing extremely challenging. Thorium also forms a stable isotope that is very difficult to break down.

Here is an excellent and detailed paper

https://www-pub.iaea.org/mtcd/publications/pdf/te_1450_web.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiczLuiwK_5AhWqXvEDHRmoDVIQFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2iN2I2DFcaRMQzrcEpkK91" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www-pub.iaea.org/mtcd/publications/pdf/te_1450_web.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiczLuiwK_5AhWqXvEDHRmoDVIQFnoECCQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2iN2I2DFcaRMQzrcEpkK91
Unfortunately thorium reactors are no answer eithe... (show quote)


This is excellent info! I can't wait to have some time to read it. Thanks for the link.

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Aug 5, 2022 09:19:16   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
kymarto wrote:
"If we consider these scaling effects, the temperate increase over the Permian-Triassic boundary was no different to current climate change in terms of speed. The increase in temperature during this event is associated with a mass extinction event during which 90 percent of marine animals died out."

This last sentence is most important. There is a clearly demonstrated link between greenhouse gases and increasing surface temperatures. Even if there are non-anthropogenic factors causing temperatures to rise, anything we can do to limit the rise is crucial. 90% extinction rate is not trivial.
"If we consider these scaling effects, the te... (show quote)


There is no demonstrated evidence that a rise in CO2 causes temperatures to rise. It is just an unproven and unlikely theory. Comparing CO2 gases to the roof of a greenhouse is absurd.

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Aug 5, 2022 10:51:55   #
St.Mary's
 
Temperature reading for where I am at today is irrelevant. The temperature of where I will be after I'm dead is what is really important.

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Aug 5, 2022 13:35:43   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
Fotoartist wrote:
There is no demonstrated evidence that a rise in CO2 causes temperatures to rise. It is just an unproven and unlikely theory. Comparing CO2 gases to the roof of a greenhouse is absurd.


Of all the complexities of climate science, the one thing that is not in doubt is the role of so-called greenhouse gases in the warming of the atmosphere, which even a schoolchild can easily demonstrate in a simple experiment. I don't know what kind of whacko pseudo-science you have been reading, but if you provide me some links I will happily debunk them for you.

Here's the kindergarten version:

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2021/02/25/carbon-dioxide-cause-global-warming/

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Aug 6, 2022 16:16:33   #
RAR_man Loc: stow, MA
 
The mass extinction was not due, in part, to cold! The effect of the asteroid hitting the Yucatan threw up enormous amounts of material that must have stayed suspended in the atmosphere for years. We know that when Krakatoa blew, it did much the same and the effect on the climate lasted some years. So, dont conflate mass extinction with unbearably hot climate change.

If you read APOCALYPSE NEVER, Schellenberger claims there will be much more arable land as the earth warms. Yes. Will be hot at and around the equator, but what's new?

I still would like to see solid evidence that man is the cause of the warming rather than normal chain of events in an interglacial period. Ice core samples from 250K years and 2.5 million years show carbon levels higher than today's (obviously not attributable to man).

I believe the climate is warming. I believe that we should take good care of the planet, but i dont see the link to man...but willing to believe. There are hundreds of thousands of scientists that are not convinced by the data. NOT DENYERS! Just not convinced, yet.

People want to overlook more recent history, too. The native Americans were driven out of the SW US by droughts (50-100 years long). They left us their cliff dwellings and pueblos. We know how hot it got from pollen records. We know how dry,too.

6000 years ago, there was a massive warm up and glaciers in the Alps did a major retreat. No one ever wants to talk about such many climatological events. insteasd, they want to sensationalize every hot spell, every hurricane...where in fact, the hurricanes are no stronger or more frequent today as they have been. Same for the heat. This is what happens when 1) politicians highjack science (like they did/do with covid and 2) when scientists see easy grant money by going along with a narrative. Prof. Emeritus Lindzen (famous climatologist) has said the same.

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Aug 6, 2022 17:27:56   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
RAR_man wrote:
The mass extinction was not due, in part, to cold! The effect of the asteroid hitting the Yucatan threw up enormous amounts of material that must have stayed suspended in the atmosphere for years. We know that when Krakatoa blew, it did much the same and the effect on the climate lasted some years. So, dont conflate mass extinction with unbearably hot climate change.

If you read APOCALYPSE NEVER, Schellenberger claims there will be much more arable land as the earth warms. Yes. Will be hot at and around the equator, but what's new?

I still would like to see solid evidence that man is the cause of the warming rather than normal chain of events in an interglacial period. Ice core samples from 250K years and 2.5 million years show carbon levels higher than today's (obviously not attributable to man).

I believe the climate is warming. I believe that we should take good care of the planet, but i dont see the link to man...but willing to believe. There are hundreds of thousands of scientists that are not convinced by the data. NOT DENYERS! Just not convinced, yet.

People want to overlook more recent history, too. The native Americans were driven out of the SW US by droughts (50-100 years long). They left us their cliff dwellings and pueblos. We know how hot it got from pollen records. We know how dry,too.

6000 years ago, there was a massive warm up and glaciers in the Alps did a major retreat. No one ever wants to talk about such many climatological events. insteasd, they want to sensationalize every hot spell, every hurricane...where in fact, the hurricanes are no stronger or more frequent today as they have been. Same for the heat. This is what happens when 1) politicians highjack science (like they did/do with covid and 2) when scientists see easy grant money by going along with a narrative. Prof. Emeritus Lindzen (famous climatologist) has said the same.
The mass extinction was not due, in part, to cold!... (show quote)


The K-Pg extinction to which you refer is only the latest of 5 mass extinctions. One or two of the earlier ones seem to have been due to climate changes.

You are wrong that "no one ever wants to talk about such many climatological (sic) events". If you were to read the vast literature of climate science, not what Newsmax and Fox are saying, you would see that there is a strong consensus among climate scientists that something is happening that is unprecedented, and which is going to impact human life (and all life) across the globe very shortly. It's not that there have not been other climatic events in the earth's history that were not of a similar magnitude, but the fact that 1) it is happening now, and 2) it is happening at a speed that is unprecedented.

It always amazes me that people who know nothing about science and have never truly read the literature believe that they are experts. They will listen to some people with an agenda making inaccurate and spurious claims, and they will believe those over the research of people who have spent their lives in research.

As a cameraman, I have been to the Arctic regions five times in the past three years filming for documentaries about the Arctic, not only about climate change, but about geostrategic realities and other things of interest in the far north. We spoke to many experts and scientists who spend their time there doing research, and none of them had any doubt about climate change and the roles humans are playing in it. And the people up there were saying that they have never, in their lifetimes or in the history of their ancestors, seen anything like what is happening now. We were in the fjords of Northeast Greenland last October, and it was the first time any of the people had ever seen them free of ice at that time. In the Beaufort Sea, we were told by a veteran bush pilot who has been flying there that when we were there (2020) it was the first summer that there was no sea ice. He said that the oil companies on the North Slope are packing up shop (BP has left) because the permafrost is becoming too unstable to support the drilling rigs. The changes that are happening, and happening fast, are becoming catastrophic. Weather is becoming more extreme. It is not just that some land will become drier and other land will become more fertile. Modeling has shown that overall, the more fertile regions will become non-arable, and the farming regions lost will not be made up for by the land nearer the poles warming. Warming will change the convection of ocean currents, and could actually result in many areas along the east coast of America and some other places becoming warmer as the currents will no longer bring warmer ocean waters from the south up along the coasts.

It is a massively complex science, and the models are not perfect. As unexpected results occur, the models are refined, and as they get better and better, the news gets worse and worse. I can only say to stop listening to the news and read the actual literature, and listen to the actual scientists, not news announcers with agendas who cherry pick and distort findings out of context.

There may well be natural forces at work that are also contributing to climate change, but there is no question that a major contributor to what is happening now is anthropogenic. We do have the power to at least halt or slow down the activities of ours that are clearing driving climate change. And if we do not, we deserve what we are going to get.

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