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Canon Mirrorless Camera
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Jun 7, 2022 10:20:46   #
Haydon
 
47greyfox wrote:
A bunch of folks have proposed the R7 and RF 70-200 f/2.8 or even lighter f/4 L variants keeping you in the Canon ecosystem, if that’s the goal. I really don’t see how you could go wrong.


If he's shooting mainly sports as mentioned in his post, losing a full stop might be undesirable in his case.

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Jun 7, 2022 10:23:45   #
Toby
 
amfoto1 wrote:
The new Canon R7 is very probably what you will want and will come close to or exceed the 7D Mark II in various ways. But it's a mixed bag and comes up a little short in some other ways. One might say the R7 is more of a major upgrade to the 90D, instead of an upgrade the 7DII.

The R7 was announced about 10 days ago and will be in stores around the end of this month. However, depending upon demand (which I think will be strong) and how quickly Canon can fill pre-orders, it may be some time before you can get your hands on one.

You say you shoot sports, but it really depends upon whether you do so professionally or as an amateur, such as a proud parent shooting their kid's sports. Both are sports shooters and the R7 will be great for the latter, but it has some shortcomings for the high volume, pro shooter.

Some aspects of the R7, as compared to the 7D Mark II and 90D...

- Very good value at $1499 (7DII sold for $1799 when introduced. OTOH, 90D is selling for $1199.)

- R7 is smaller and about 10 oz. lighter weight than 7DII.

- R7 has a fabulous autofocus system. Way beyond what any Canon DSLR can do. In fact, the R7 inherits much of the top-of-the-line $6000 R3's AF capabilities! Some reviewers think the R3's is the best AF system on the market today. We can expect similar with the R7 and that like with other mirrorless, the AF system will be a game changer for sports shooters still using DSLRs. The AF not only quickly detects subjects on its own, it locks on and is very "sticky" following their movement. It finds faces and even eyes to focus upon. It can be set for optimal performance with various types of subjects: people, animals, vehicles. The R7 doesn't have the Eye Control of the R3, but other than that the AF is the same (this adds some features not found on the slightly older, but still very capable R5 and R6).

- R7 has 32.5MP sensor, up from 20MP in 7DII. This is both good and bad. More resolution, but also more sensitive to camera shake and more demanding of lens quality.

- R7's mechanical shutter can shoot at 15 frames/sec. (compared to 10 fps in both 7DII and 90D).

- R7's electronic shutter can shoot 30 fps and up to 1/16000. But due to rolling shutter effect, will likely be limited for shooting fast moving subjects.

- R7 uses same type battery as 7DII/90D. R7 is rated to get 770 shots with a fully charged LP-E6NH. But the 90D gets 1300! 7DII is only rated to get 670 shots. However, this is a bit misleading. For one, they all likely get more shots than they are rated. But the biggest problem with the comparison is that the two DSLRs have built-in flashes and when standard CIPA battery tests are done, 50% of shots use full power flash. If you simply don't use the built-in flash, you get many more shots per charge. I've easily gotten 1200 to 1500 shots per battery per charge with each of my 7DII. (I haven't used 90D for more than a few shots, so can only assume it too can get far more than it's rated). Here's one of the tricks of the R7... it doesn't have a built-in flash. So that makes it's battery performance look better than the 7DII's, but it probably isn't. In other words, the R7 will probably get closer to what it's rated, while the 7DII can easily get double the shots it's rated to do.

- 7DII can be fitted with a vertical battery grip that doubles battery capacity, while also providing an ergonomically comfortable grip and a full set of secondary control. The R7 is not designed to accommodate a grip, nor does Canon plan to provide one (this has been confirmed by Canon themselves). So high volume shooters will be changing batteries twice as often. 3rd party manufacturers such as Vello might come up with a grip for the R7, but those lack the controls and use an external wire to connect their shutter button. It's baffling why Canon didn't just make the R7 compatible with the BG-R10 grip offered for the R5 and R6. The R7 is virtually the same size and shape as those cameras and uses the same batteries! Seems like it would have been easy to do at little add'l cost. Of course, if you have weight concerns, you probably don't use a battery grip and 2nd battery anyway.

- R7 appears to have a rather limited buffer and a bit of a bottleneck at the memory cards. Shooting RAW the R7 will fill its buffer in 3 seconds if using the 15 fps mechanical shutter... or just over 1 second using the electronic shutter at 30 fps! The 7DII buffers 3 seconds continuous shooting RAW at its top speed, but because the files are much smaller it off-loads from the buffer to the memory card almost as fast as new images are added to the buffer. I rarely use "spray and pray" style shooting, but even when I do long bursts I have very rarely seen slight pauses. It is probably the R7 will experience longer delays. Some of the early reviewers working with pre-production cameras reported up to 8 second delay waiting for the buffer to clear enough to start shooting again. This is because the R7 uses slower SD memory cards, instead of the much more expensive but far faster CF Express used in other cameras. Short bursts should be no problem. But long ones might see a pause that causes some missed shots. No doubt people will test different cards to see what works best. This may be quite important with sports shooters using R7.

- Canon claims R7 weather resistance is roughly comparable to 90D... not as high as 7DII's. They have told us nothing about durability. The 7DII is rated to have a life span of 200,000 shutter actuations. The 90D is rated to do 120,000 (which is an increase compared to 80D, 70D, etc. which were 100,000, but also had slower max frame rate). Keeping in mind that those are 10 fps cameras, I would hope the R7 being able to do 15 fps would have a shutter rated to do 300,000 clicks.... but suspect it's not. Canon hasn't said. The 90D uses a lot of "polycarbonate" (i.e., "plastic"). It appears the R7 does too, though reviewers report it "feels solid". The 7DII uses a magnesium shell that just seems more premium quality. Oh well, I suppose that's how the lower price is possible.

- The R7 has a somewhat unique control layout. The rear dial is now moved up and around the joystick. I'm sure most folks can get accustomed to this and comfortable with it... might even like it! However, I often use two or three cameras when shooting sports and have to switch between them quickly and seamlessly. It's important to me that the cameras have very similar ergonomics and control layout, so that I'm not fumbling around when I switch cameras. I have three very compatible DSLRs right now... two APS-C and one full frame. I would be concerned trying to fit one or two R7 into the mix, due to their quite different control layout. (I also have a fourth, very compact M-series mirrorless that I use for certain things, but those don't require the same ability to switch quickly). I'm not sure why Canon felt the need to mess with already excellent ergonomics and control layout. But they did! Of course, anyone just using a single camera will be fine, once they become comfortable with the new layout. FWIW, the reviewers did note that the R7 has two dials for exposure control, where some (most? all?) of the other R-series have three. But the multi-directional key pad or other user programmable controls might mitigate this possible concern. Shooting sports, it can be helpful to keep one's eye to the viewfinder, while making adjustments by feel: aperture, shutter, ISO and Exposure Compensation... and dedicated, easy access dials are ideal for this purpose. OTOH, the electronic viewfinder of a mirrorless camera can display exposure simulation that helps a lot with those same exposure adjustments. You can even set up to toggle a histogram on and off in the viewfinder, if you wish.

- There are adapters that allow any current Canon EF and EF-S lenses you might have to be used on the R7. Many people doing this with other R-series cameras have said the lenses work just as well or possibly even better on the mirrorless camera, compared to when they were used on DSLRs. There also are some great RF lenses, if you prefer. There's a new RF 18-150mm "walk-around" kit lens being offered with R7 (adds $400 to the cost). There's also a $650 RF 100-400mm that would likely be great for daytime sports. If needed, there are also more premium RF 70-200mm f/4 and f/2.8 lenses that are more compact and lighter weight than their EF counterparts. More expensive, though.

Overall, while it's not perfect for me... R7 might be perfect for you. Only you can say. Check it out!

https://cameradecision.com/compare/Canon-EOS-R7-vs-Canon-EOS-7D-Mark-II
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1707911-REG/canon_eos_r7_mirrorless_camera.html
The new Canon R7 is very probably what you will wa... (show quote)


Excellent article. I am strongly considering the R7. I presently have a 70D and a 7DII. Question, I don't understand the difference of a machanical shutter and an electronic. Why is there a mechanical shutter and how does it work? Thanks

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Jun 7, 2022 10:26:25   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Toby wrote:
Excellent article. I am strongly considering the R7. I presently have a 70D and a 7DII. Question, I don't understand the difference of a machanical shutter and an electronic. Why is there a mechanical shutter and how does it work? Thanks


Google something called: rolling shutter

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Jun 7, 2022 10:35:38   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Haydon wrote:
7DII + EF 70-200 2.8L= 5.26lbs
R7 + RF 70-200L= 3.7lbs

Between the RF & EF 70-200 2.8L I've read the RF is minimally sharper that the EF but it is more compact.

Price for R7 & RF 70-200 2.8L = $4300.00 plus tax with a saving of 1.5 lbs. in the combination. Only you can be the judge as to whether that amount of money is worth the 1.5 lbs. saving.


Fuji X-T4 + 50-140 f2.8
3.3 lbs
$3,200

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Jun 7, 2022 11:38:52   #
DLewis Loc: Aurora, CO
 
Do not discount the small EOS RP.

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Jun 7, 2022 12:31:28   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
DLewis wrote:
Do not discount the small EOS RP.


The R7 is 2 generations ahead with IBIS all for a great price

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Jun 7, 2022 12:44:47   #
dick ranez
 
You can buy a decent monopod for $25.00 to support that weight shooting sports.

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Jun 7, 2022 13:05:45   #
mikenolan Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
 
What's a good mirrorless camera for those of us who don't have $1000 for a new camera and would like to keep using our Canon APS-C lenses?

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Jun 7, 2022 13:47:37   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Nana65 wrote:
I currently shoot with a Canon DSLR 7D Mark ii and a Canon 70-200 f2.8 pro lens. I mainly shoot sports. I love this setup, but as I've gotten older the weight is beginning to bother my hands and arms. I tried the Olympus OM-D camera but it just doesn't feel right and the menu settings are not as easy for me to navigate as the Canon menu. And I just haven't been getting the quality of photo I've gotten from my current setup. Is there a Canon mirrorless and lens combo that will perform as well as the 7D?
I currently shoot with a Canon DSLR 7D Mark ii and... (show quote)


Have you tried the new OM-1? It is well above and beyond the E-M1 or E-M5 in abilities and the menu was made a lot simpler. It may be worth your while to look at it. It was designed for wildlife, action, and sports with a higher ISO sensor, with a lot more focal/exposure points, and the same AI as the E-M1X has. You might want to give the OM-1 a look/see before going back to larger, heavier, and more expensive.

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Jun 7, 2022 13:59:23   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
mikenolan wrote:
What's a good mirrorless camera for those of us who don't have $1000 for a new camera and would like to keep using our Canon APS-C lenses?


Used Sony a6000 with Sigma adapter about $650 .......R10 better if you can swing it ....
.

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Jun 7, 2022 14:15:36   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
mikenolan wrote:
What's a good mirrorless camera for those of us who don't have $1000 for a new camera and would like to keep using our Canon APS-C lenses?


Price the brand new, just announced EOS R10 for a cropped-sensor model.

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Jun 7, 2022 15:01:08   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
mikenolan wrote:
What's a good mirrorless camera for those of us who don't have $1000 for a new camera and would like to keep using our Canon APS-C lenses?


Because ALL your EF and EF-S lenses will work 100% fine on all the R cameras regardless of being APSC or not.
So even grab an old 1987 lens and it will work just fine.
Canon made it so all the R cameras are backwards compatible with your lenses.

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Jun 7, 2022 15:12:36   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Because ALL your EF and EF-S lenses will work 100% fine on all the R cameras regardless of being APSC or not.
So even grab an old 1987 lens and it will work just fine.
Canon made it so all the R cameras are backwards compatible with your lenses.


Well, one might consider the resolution pixel resolution of the resulting enforced crop of the EF (EF-S) to RF adapter. A camera like the 20MP EOS R6 will give you 8MP images with your EF-S lenses. You could do 10MP with the EOS Xti back in 2006.

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Jun 7, 2022 15:21:21   #
JohnR Loc: The Gates of Hell
 
Nana65 wrote:
I currently shoot with a Canon DSLR 7D Mark ii and a Canon 70-200 f2.8 pro lens. I mainly shoot sports. I love this setup, but as I've gotten older the weight is beginning to bother my hands and arms. I tried the Olympus OM-D camera but it just doesn't feel right and the menu settings are not as easy for me to navigate as the Canon menu. And I just haven't been getting the quality of photo I've gotten from my current setup. Is there a Canon mirrorless and lens combo that will perform as well as the 7D?
I currently shoot with a Canon DSLR 7D Mark ii and... (show quote)


I suggest looking at the Lumix series M4/3 - similar weight & size to the Olympus but much more understandable menu system. As many have already said Canon mirrorless APS-C is not going to be much lighter than your 7D

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Jun 7, 2022 15:24:23   #
allison011501
 
I had a Canon Mark 3 5D and 100-400mm lens and it was back breaking to carry around and get stable shots. I switched to a Canon R5 and a RF100-500mm lens. The difference in weight is tremendous to me. I can easily carry this camera most all day with no problems at all...... just my experience.

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