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Detail in Photographs
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Mar 5, 2022 21:21:09   #
User ID
 
Gene51 wrote:
You will see the difference when you crop. Keep in mind that a 45mp image is MUCH larger than a 16 or 20 mp image. Enlarge the image from a 16, 20, 24 or even a 36 mp image to the same size as a 45mp image, and you will see a difference as well.

Acoarst thaz true of 16MP or even 24MP, but 36MP ?!? The image magnification of 45MP over 36MP is about 14%.

Obviously with best techniques 14% can be detected if you're really looking for it, but in most cases it's just not visible.

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Mar 6, 2022 04:19:06   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
Thanks all for replies - interesting food for thought. A little while ago I brooched a similar topic to a friend who said "It's the shooter's need rather than the viewer's need." and "What the viewer sees depends on how long ago he had new specs"

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Mar 6, 2022 05:32:10   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
AzPicLady wrote:
I was told early on in the digital craze that there is no regulation as to pixel size. A manufacturer cam make the pixels really tiny so as to brag they have more than the competition. But if the sensor size is the same, a 16 MP camera can produce just as much quality as a 24 MP one. Unless things have changed, wouldn't this still be true?


It is exactly the opposite. The number of pixels determine the theoretical resolution, no matter what the size of the photosites. Do you think a full frame sensor with 16 pixels will produce the same resolution as a full frame sensor with 16 million pixels? Each pixel is a discrete bit of information, and the more you have the more resolution is possible. Smaller pixels mean only less light gathering power, so more noise, and then there is something about diffraction, meaning that smaller pixels need a larger maximum aperture to reduce diffraction effects. So more pixels for a given sensor size means more theoretical resolution, but with more noise per pixel, when viewed at 100 percent. However, if you make the files the same size, then the noise becomes approximately equal.

Yes, higher pixel count will often increase detail using a good lens, but we are talking about viewing large files from a very close distance or at a high magnification. It is usually very subtle, and won't be obvious unless you are doing pixel peeping or inspecting a two foot print from inches away.

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Mar 6, 2022 06:54:14   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Delderby wrote:
Just had a brief discussion in another topic – but wished to avoid Hijacking.

This was about the difference in detail between images shot with an R5 (45mpx) and a D5mklV (30mpx).
My cameras are M4/3 – a 16mpx and a 20mpx. As a one-time SOOC aficianado I still try to avoid the need for too much PP. When viewing pics on my Toshiba laptop or printing up to A4 on my Canon three-in-one I am not aware of any difference in detail, likewise when I occasionally have 16 x 20s printed by Whitewall.

So if there is a difference in detail evidenced between 30mpx and 45mpx – or, say, 20mpx and 24mpx - is this likely to be down to the cameras, or to the lenses, or camera / lens settings? would any difference be gained or lost due to the quality of viewing screens or to the printers or to the printer papers? Or to all of these possibilities together?
Just had a brief discussion in another topic – but... (show quote)


It seems that pixel count now is not an issue anymore with 16mp and up cameras unless one is into heavy cropping.
Then the 45mp will beat the 20mp easily.
A larger issue though is actual sensor size and the ability to get isolation in the photo.
With a smaller sensor that seems to be more difficult unless one can find very large opening glass. The isolation is easier with FF and medium format sensors with slower lenses.

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Mar 6, 2022 07:21:10   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Delderby wrote:
Just had a brief discussion in another topic – but wished to avoid Hijacking.

This was about the difference in detail between images shot with an R5 (45mpx) and a D5mklV (30mpx).
My cameras are M4/3 – a 16mpx and a 20mpx. As a one-time SOOC aficianado I still try to avoid the need for too much PP. When viewing pics on my Toshiba laptop or printing up to A4 on my Canon three-in-one I am not aware of any difference in detail, likewise when I occasionally have 16 x 20s printed by Whitewall.

So if there is a difference in detail evidenced between 30mpx and 45mpx – or, say, 20mpx and 24mpx - is this likely to be down to the cameras, or to the lenses, or camera / lens settings? would any difference be gained or lost due to the quality of viewing screens or to the printers or to the printer papers? Or to all of these possibilities together?
Just had a brief discussion in another topic – but... (show quote)

I own a 12 mp D3s that I also get detailed metal prints to 20X30.
So, if you are a competent photographer, you SHOULD not notice the difference.
Some here will say yes, some no, in my experience sharpness is more up to the photographer than the number of MP.

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Mar 6, 2022 07:53:02   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
billnikon wrote:
I own a 12 mp D3s that I also get detailed metal prints to 20X30.
So, if you are a competent photographer, you SHOULD not notice the difference.
Some here will say yes, some no, in my experience sharpness is more up to the photographer than the number of MP.



My 10D as been printed at 16x20 and no one knew it was 6.5 mp.

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Mar 6, 2022 08:35:55   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
I did a series of photos of the aftermath of the Japanese tsunami of 2011. The first time I arrived a few days after the disaster, the only still camera I had with me was a 12MP Canon Powershot. On later trips I packed along my Nikon D800, with 3x the number of pixels. This became an exhibition that had a number of showings in Japan and Germany, with prints 2x3 feet. On close inspection, the difference in resolution was noticeable, but from a normal viewing distance for a print that size, it was not obvious at all

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Mar 6, 2022 09:07:01   #
cactuspic Loc: Dallas, TX
 
Where I noticed the biggest difference between my 5D Mark IV and my R5 is when I was shooting birds that involved extreme cropping. I could crop further with the R5 and still get an acceptable image. On large prints of focus-stacked images, I could also see a difference, although not major.

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Mar 6, 2022 10:25:48   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
When it comes to evaluating the cameras only, my take on it is that the sensor is an analog device and it takes an analog-to-digital microprocessor to convert that signal for all of the "in camera" processing including that of the RAW format (which is a digital file).

So...is the resulting image we see really a sole function of the sensor or is it impacted by how the camera's microprocessor and firmware process that analog signal which is different from camera to camera?

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Mar 6, 2022 10:51:53   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
When it comes to evaluating the cameras only, my take on it is that the sensor is an analog device and it takes an analog-to-digital microprocessor to convert that signal for all of the "in camera" processing including that of the RAW format (which is a digital file).

So...is the resulting image we see really a sole function of the sensor or is it impacted by how the camera's microprocessor and firmware process that analog signal which is different from camera to camera?


Thats why, if you use your Nikon for taking JPEGs, you must always experiment and set your Picture Controls for best results. I do not know what other makers do, but Nikons tend to come from the factory set up to do very poor, very bland JPEGs until adjusted.

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Mar 6, 2022 11:00:47   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
Delderby wrote:
Just had a brief discussion in another topic – but wished to avoid Hijacking.

This was about the difference in detail between images shot with an R5 (45mpx) and a D5mklV (30mpx).
My cameras are M4/3 – a 16mpx and a 20mpx. As a one-time SOOC aficianado I still try to avoid the need for too much PP. When viewing pics on my Toshiba laptop or printing up to A4 on my Canon three-in-one I am not aware of any difference in detail, likewise when I occasionally have 16 x 20s printed by Whitewall.

So if there is a difference in detail evidenced between 30mpx and 45mpx – or, say, 20mpx and 24mpx - is this likely to be down to the cameras, or to the lenses, or camera / lens settings? would any difference be gained or lost due to the quality of viewing screens or to the printers or to the printer papers? Or to all of these possibilities together?
Just had a brief discussion in another topic – but... (show quote)


Pixel peepers, can see the differences. Those who enjoy viewing at normal distances can't tell the difference. There was a video a while ago, the creator shot the same pics a series of about 10 different scenes, each scene shot with M43 and FF higher resolution, and printed them 11x17 put them on a table and had experts review them. The experts couldn't' tell which image was take with what camera.

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Mar 6, 2022 11:40:03   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
Delderby wrote:
Just had a brief discussion in another topic – but wished to avoid Hijacking.

This was about the difference in detail between images shot with an R5 (45mpx) and a D5mklV (30mpx).
My cameras are M4/3 – a 16mpx and a 20mpx. As a one-time SOOC aficianado I still try to avoid the need for too much PP. When viewing pics on my Toshiba laptop or printing up to A4 on my Canon three-in-one I am not aware of any difference in detail, likewise when I occasionally have 16 x 20s printed by Whitewall.

So if there is a difference in detail evidenced between 30mpx and 45mpx – or, say, 20mpx and 24mpx - is this likely to be down to the cameras, or to the lenses, or camera / lens settings? would any difference be gained or lost due to the quality of viewing screens or to the printers or to the printer papers? Or to all of these possibilities together?
Just had a brief discussion in another topic – but... (show quote)


Simply put, the most import part of a digital picture is how good the lens is. A4 paper is quite small and a 6mpx sensor will do a fine job with that size print. Just go back and look at pictures made 20 years ago and see the quality that has been achieved with small sensors. I'm telling you, the lens is the most important part of photography.

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Mar 6, 2022 11:56:33   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
jeep_daddy wrote:
Simply put, the most import part of a digital picture is how good the lens is. A4 paper is quite small and a 6mpx sensor will do a fine job with that size print. Just go back and look at pictures made 20 years ago and see the quality that has been achieved with small sensors. I'm telling you, the lens is the most important part of photography.


Are you saying... photography is first and foremost about the optics?! ;)

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Mar 6, 2022 12:05:36   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
If by difference in detail you are talking about resolution, it will depend on the ability of the lens to focus and the spacing of the pixels.

I would like to point out that the sensor is two-dimensional. That means that if you have two sensors, one with M pixels and the other with N pixels, the difference in pixel spacing is not M/N, it's the square root of M/N. (Assuming you're using the same lens and that the two sensors have the same aspect ratio).

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Mar 6, 2022 12:06:26   #
Orphoto Loc: Oregon
 
I agree with jeep daddy. However, by extension, really high quality lenses show their mettle when paired with high resolution bodies.

Yes, attack the weak links. Whether it be body/sensor, lens, support, display/presentation or technique.

Don't expend all your resources on technical considerations; the artistic side requires attention and growth as well.

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