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Would you do it again?
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Dec 19, 2021 23:51:25   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
burkphoto wrote:


Having been a photographer of serious bent since 1968 in middle school, I concur wholeheartedly. Mirrorless digital is HUGE progress. Looking back 50+ years, we had great film cameras back in the day. But technology has moved forward at an ever accelerating rate, and now we have tools we never dreamed of back then.

The good news is that we have choices.

There is still a wide array of films available, but they ARE expensive. Fortunately, digital means of scanning or copying film can extend the usefulness and the precision of post-processing and printing film images.

We have a very wide array of digital camera devices... from smart phones, to point-and-shoot cameras, to travel zoom cameras, to dSLRs and MILCs. There is something for everyone. Most of it is good, and I'd venture to say, most of it is better than most of the small format film gear we used to use!

I still hold onto my Nikon FTn and F3HP, my Canon A1, my Bronica ETRSi, and all my darkroom gear from my youth. But no rational reasoning applies there. I don't use it. I won't use it. I just like to look at it. My wife gets p*ssed off about that! But she still has her Minolta SRT-100 and a couple of lenses...

I left my dSLR gear and dedicated camcorder gear behind when I semi-retired in 2012. I never wanted two separate camera systems then, and still don't. So I chose Lumix GH series cameras, and haven't looked back. And no, I don't do landscape or sports or birds in flight or safari photography with it. I have no interest in that. But for the training videos and stills work I do, and my hobby filmmaking with my twins, my choice makes sense. It will evolve over time, but for now, it's enough. One twin has a GH5, and the other has a GH4, and we share the same pool of Lumix lenses and adapted SLR lenses.

Like you, HELL YES, I would do it again. I'd do it exactly the same way. Is my gear perfect? No. NO camera is perfect. There is only the perfect camera for what I'm doing RIGHT NOW. Sometimes, that is whatever camera I have, and often, that is an iPhone 7 Plus. For a huge amount of casual photography, it is good enough. But for serious, "intentional" photography, where I need to be precise in capturing an image or a documentary interview or training process, I'll pull out the GH4 or my kid's GH5.
img src="https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/images/s... (show quote)



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Dec 20, 2021 02:20:51   #
gwilliams6
 
Tony & Chelsea Northrup just gave their top 2021 Pixel Award to what they say is "the greatest camera ever made" . Other cameras also won awards in other categories. I think all the winners were mirrorless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNDMySukQ98

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Dec 20, 2021 03:12:28   #
OldSchool-WI Loc: Brandon, Wisconsin 53919
 
But, can they all be operated by 4year olds?----

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Dec 20, 2021 07:06:43   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Mr Mike W wrote:
This question is for those who have made the transition from DSLR to Mirrorless cameras. What do you feel is the biggest advantage that you have found in making the switch? Is there anything that you were disappointed in?
Your answers will help ME decide if I too should make the switch.
Thanks in advance for your lucid comments.
Mike


I am getting ready to go out to my favorite Florida wetland armed only with my old, outdated, much aligned, ridiculed, D500 and 200-500 mm 5.6 lens. Oh what will I do with this old camera, only 10 fps. mirror black out, mirror slap, noisy, Oh the humanity.
I guess I will just have to take my regular old shots and learn to be satisified.
Like the images below, oh woo is me.









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Dec 20, 2021 08:44:40   #
ClarkJohnson Loc: Fort Myers, FL and Cohasset, MA
 
You’ll be getting 10 fps of keepers while the MILCs are still trying to focus…

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Dec 20, 2021 08:47:33   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
billnikon wrote:
I am getting ready to go out to my favorite Florida wetland armed only with my old, outdated, much aligned, ridiculed, D500 and 200-500 mm 5.6 lens. Oh what will I do with this old camera...


And you openly admit to owning such an antique?! If you don't have the latest expensive camera, why bother?

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Dec 20, 2021 08:57:43   #
Ava'sPapa Loc: Cheshire, Ct.
 
Damn good for an over-the-hill camera. I have one too and like it a lot.

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Dec 20, 2021 10:39:48   #
RJWagons Loc: Lake Ridge Virginia
 
Thank you. I've been wondering the same thing - mainly because I want to keep the lenses I have. So Canon lens will fit on a mirrorless camera? Adaptor?

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Dec 20, 2021 10:45:56   #
JhnMhn
 
OldSchool-WI wrote:
How can you say you have focus loss except when you are in manual focus--with a poorly constructed DSLR? If in auto---it is in auto---just like a mirrorless? I have used SLR cameras since 1956 with a Graflex. If you had to micro-adjust your auto focus in freezing weather---that is your camera and not the mirrorless question.-----ew


Temp changes can and do affect the multiple linkages and very accurate adjustments required of a DSLR’s mirror/focus mechanics. This reality is completely eliminated with mirrorless by eliminating this outdated mechanism and focusing directly off the sensor. Whether or not this is a noticeable problem depends on how critical a photographer’s needs are. Using long lenses at full aperture really pushes this reality. Having to use the images in large prints also makes it more apparent. Using shorter lenses with smaller apertures for small reproductions makes it much less likely to be noticed. These temp/humidity caused changes can occur in summer when weather fronts come through quickly or a fog bank rolls in off the lake…Lake Superior is famous for abrupt temp changes like this in summer. I have had to do this with Canon 1D and 5D series bodies, so not an individual camera failing. I first learned the field micro adjustment method from another pro experiencing the same problems using a different brand’s top-end cameras. This is indeed a real world difference between mirrorless and DSLR bodies.

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Dec 20, 2021 10:46:16   #
cactuspic Loc: Dallas, TX
 
amfoto1 wrote:
I have no dispute at all with the positives about mirrorless that Paul (Chg_Canon) and others have responded.

You might also want to consider some of the negatives aspects of mirrorless...

- Generally speaking, less shots per battery charge. This is largely due to the heavy power requirements of electronic viewfinders. The optical viewfinder in a DSLR is usable any time, even when the camera is powered down. Those OVFs also use relatively little power when active. This is not the case with mirrorless that rely upon an EVF (as most do). It's completely dark when the power is off and drawing power constantly when in use. All those cool, gee-whiz features in the EVF also need power. Now, most people get a lot more shots than CIPA tests would suggest, but the same is true of DSLRs. Just be sure to check the rating of any camera you consider and compare.

- Also related to the viewfinder, some mirrorless have an issue with blackout when shooting bursts. Most manufacturers have worked to address this with some success, at least in their more advanced (and more expensive) models.

- Most mirrorless top frame rates are only possible with electronic shutter (which is also the "silent" shutter). A possible problem with electronic shutter is "rolling shutter effect". This is where moving subjects are noticeably distorted in the image. The faster the movement, the stronger the distortion. It happens regardless of shutter speed and can be caused too if the camera is moving (such as panning or shooting from a moving vehicle). It also can cause "banding" issues under some types of lighting. Some manufacturers have produced cameras using backlit sensors that give a much faster readout of the data being captured, to minimize rolling shutter effect. But this type of sensor is generally only found in more advanced (and more expensive) models. Of course an alternative is to use the camera's mechanical shutter instead... but then you won't get the super fast frame rates. Still, the mechanical shutter is an option on most mirrorless, though since the upcoming top-of-the-line Nikon Z9 will be electronic shutter only, we may start seeing mechanical shutters going away.

- Not all electronic shutters are compatible with flash. Some recent (and more expensive) cameras have addressed this problem.

- Cost might be a consideration. In some cases the camera or lens might be cheaper than a comparable DSLR and it's lens. But in many cases the mirrorless gear is more expensive.

- Availability of native lenses and accessories may be limited. At their peak, the Nikon and Canon universe for their DSLRs included roughly 100 lenses. They've also been selling them for 30 or more years, so there is a crap load of used lenses. It's similar with some accessories. While it may be possible to adapt DSLR lenses for use on a mirrorless camera, in some cases autofocus performance takes a hit... plus the combination of the lens, adapter and camera may end up weighing roughly the same as a DSLR with the lens and no adapter. There also may not be much savings in size. Currently Sony, Fuji and the Olympus/Panasonic (micro 4/3 format) systems each offer between 35 and 45 lenses to choose among. What's lacking are mostly specialized lenses, such as macro and tilt/shift (aka perspective control). Since the Canon RF-mount and Nikon Z-mount mirrorless systems are relatively new... approx. 3 years old... they have less native lenses so far, although they're rapidly adding them. Each currently have approx. 24 lenses. The Nikon Z-series lenses, in particular, don't cover a lot of range yet. So depending upon what you need and the system you choose, maybe they'll have what you need... or maybe they won't. There are almost no used lenses available yet for some of these systems, too.

- There are very limited third party lens selection for many of these manufacturers, too. Almost none for Canon and Nikon. Not many for Fuji or Oly/Panasonic either. Sony sees pretty good support from 3rd party manufacturers for their E-mount system, but it's nowhere near as many options as there are for the Canon and Nikon DSLR systems.

- Pentax, Canon and Nikon DSLR systems all offer option of full frame or APS-C crop sensor format (note: Pentax has committed to DSLR only, no mirrorless). Each manufacturers have multiple models in each format and, without going into detail here, each format has its strengths and weaknesses. Right now among mirrorless, only Sony offers a reasonably good choice of full frame and APS-C models (though one of their new APS-C models has been indefinitely delayed due to chip shortages). Nikon offers both full frame and ASPS-C, but really only one example of the latter (there are two models in different styles, but functionally the same). Fuji is APS-C only (although they also make medium format mirrorless). Olympus/Panasonic are micro 4/3 only. The "L-mount alliance" of Sigma, Panasonic and Leica is so far full frame only. So is Canon's R-series (although they have a separate, largely non-interchangeable APS-C EOS-M system that they treat like an ugly step-child).

- Mirrorless camera tech is advancing rapidly. Manufacturers are sinking a lot into R&D for mirrorless (sometimes to the neglect of their other systems), some of which is in an effort to solve some of the problems noted above. This is good... But it also may mean that some (many?) models have or will become obsolete quickly, rapidly losing value while encouraging frequent upgrades. This is a bit like when the whole digital revolution hit hard 20 or 25 years ago to rapidly replace film. Significant tech breakthroughs were coming fast and furious, sometimes making cameras obsolete shortly after they arrived in stores! That was finally slowing down the last five or ten years... only to see the upswing of mirrorless replacing DSLRs. Over the course of 10 or 11 years (1998 to 2009), I went from 1.5MP to 6MP to 8MP to 15MP (plus 21MP in another format) to 18MP cameras.... And have since bought two more generations, each with a little more MP! Heck, I even skipped several generations along the way! (3MP, 10MP, 12MP, etc.) We're seeing something similar now in mirrorless!

None of the above are "deal breakers". Each "problem" noted may have no importance to you and/or is being worked on and dealt with by the manufacturers. And certainly, as we've seen in other responses mirrorless has a lot of pluses. In fact, recent mirrorless systems are fully capable of meeting most people's needs. But there are some things you may need to consider... Things that may affect your choices whether or not now is the time to go mirrorless. Or, if you do make the switch now, which mirrorless system would be best for you.
I have no dispute at all with the positives about ... (show quote)




A list like this is difficult becasue the particular problems may not exist at all whith specific cameras. My experience with mirrorless is limited to the Canon R5. I agree that the batteries do not last as long and that the camera and its "native" lenses are more expensive. There definitely was a blackout issue when using the electronic shutter, but I don't remember one with the mechanical shutter, but I will have to check.

The remainder of the "disadvantages" listed do not apply if the R5 is used properly, if they apply at all. For example, the lack of native lenses is a nonissue. The EF lenses I used focus just as well, if not faster and more accurately on my R5 than they did on my 5D Mark IV or my 7D Mark II. I have found the eye focusing a major benefit with EF lenses. The two lenses EF lenses I used most were the EF 100-400 version II and the 500mm 4.0 version, both of which performed better on the RF than they did on their "native " cameras. While I have since replaced the EF 100-400 and my EF 500 with the RF 100-500, I did so because it was a weight and convenience issue. The RF 100-500 is lighter than the EF 100-400 and is optically so good that I would not be lugging my EF 500 around. But I fail to see how the lack of "native" lenses is a disadvantage of the R5, as it uses EF lenses as well if not better than the the 5D Mark IV. At least with the Canon implementation, "native' lenses is a distinction without practical meaning.

You mentioned the difficulties caused by rolling shutter, which can be a very real problem of electronic shutters in certain photos. You also mentioned that the problem can be avoided by switching to the mechanical shutter. With the mechanical shutter the burst rate of 12 frames per second, my R5 has nearly double the rate of my 5Dk Mar IV (7 fps) and also exceeded my 7D Mark II (10 fps).

I am not a fanboy advocating for mirrorless cameras. I've taken most of my best images with a DSLR. In fact, I still use a DSLR (5 DSr) for my studio work, which comprises most of my professional work. Because of the specific strengths of the R5, I consolidated my kit and now use replaced two camera bodies with one, the mirrorless R5. But that does not mean it is a panacea for everyone. The problems you mentioned, may apply to some mirrorless but not all mirrorless cameras. As points of concern to check into if buying a camera, they are entirely appropriate. My point is to discuss whether those problems are issues with one specific camera, the Canon R5. The evaluation of the strengths and weaknesses of a MILC is model and brand specific. I just want to provide information for those who seek to use the R5 as a tool.

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Dec 20, 2021 10:53:35   #
JhnMhn
 
RJWagons wrote:
Thank you. I've been wondering the same thing - mainly because I want to keep the lenses I have. So Canon lens will fit on a mirrorless camera? Adaptor?


Yes, and perform as well or better as on a Canon DSLR…the focus is more accurate and consistent. Canon’s adapter quality matches their lens quality. My Canon 100-400LII was even better on my Canon RP, R,and R5 than my Canon DSLRs. If used on a Canon mirrorless with IBIS, even unstabilized EF lenses will will benefit from the in body stabilization.

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Dec 20, 2021 11:14:18   #
Tony Hayman
 
I have tried several of the Sony Mirrorless Cameras over the past few years, and I occasionally use a friends Z series Nikon... For the Sony's I find that focusing in low light is unreliable, the Nikon less so but neither do as well as my Nikon D850... However the biggest problem I have with any camera that uses an electronic "video" viewfinder is that the luminance (black to white) dynamic range is very limited, when shooting anything where there is high contrast you have no idea what is really in the picture... Yes the viewfinder shows what you end up seeing without correction, so if you only ever shoot .jpeg's and don't use Lightroom or such, then go for it. But if you shoot .raw, using a mirrorless camera, taking a picture of a sunset or a forest with bright sun and dark trees ends up mostly guesswork and luck... Framing when you don't see the whole picture is impossible. If you want a smaller camera, that is a LITTLE lighter (compare weights before you buy) that gives you "good" pictures then go for a mirrorless, if you want to take great pictures then use a DSLR!...

Note... an electronic viewfinder has a black to white dynamic range of about 300 or at best 400 to 1, while the human eye can be over 3,000 to 1... Since the sensors in top of the line cameras can come close to the 3,000 to 1, an electronic viewfinder only shows you 10% of what is possible, while a DSLR viewfinder shows you the whole thing..

Finally a last note, do not confuse resolution (pixel count) with luminance dynamic range, they are totally different measurements.

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Dec 20, 2021 12:25:03   #
Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV
 
billnikon wrote:
I am getting ready to go out to my favorite Florida wetland armed only with my old, outdated, much aligned, ridiculed, D500 and 200-500 mm 5.6 lens. Oh what will I do with this old camera, only 10 fps. mirror black out, mirror slap, noisy, Oh the humanity.
I guess I will just have to take my regular old shots and learn to be satisified.
Like the images below, oh woo is me.


Firestorm! Here we go!
I am also embarrassed to admit that I still struggle with owning and using a D500 and a Nikon 200-500 lens. And yes, even one of those horrible D850s too! I hang my head with shame!

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Dec 20, 2021 12:44:46   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Tony & Chelsea Northrup just gave their top 2021 Pixel Award to what they say is "the greatest camera ever made" . Other cameras also won awards in other categories. I think all the winners were mirrorless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNDMySukQ98


So what was it?

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Dec 20, 2021 12:55:42   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
Retired CPO wrote:
Firestorm! Here we go!
I am also embarrassed to admit that I still struggle with owning and using a D500 and a Nikon 200-500 lens. And yes, even one of those horrible D850s too! I hang my head with shame!

It’s the first step to recovery.

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