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Focal lenght for crop sensor camera
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Sep 15, 2021 12:41:14   #
MDI Mainer
 
mwsilvers wrote:
In my first post I failed to answer the second part of your query regarding the shutter speed. The convention wisdom to prevent hand held blur of stationary subjects is 1/focal length x crop factor which in this case would be 1/80 second.

However don't use that guideline as a standard. First, it is only intended for static images. For moving subjects the shutter speed will have to be much faster to capture an image without motion blur. Second, lenses with image stabilization will allow you to capture sharp static images hand held at much lower shutter speeds. Cameras that also have in-body image stabilization (IBIS) will allow you to capture those same images at significantly slower shutter speeds.

In addition your skills as a photographer, how you stand, how you breathe, how you hold and brace your camera, and how you depress the shutter button will all affect how slow a shutter speed can be and still give you sharp results. However all of these techniques will have less impact on subjects that are moving.

Shutter speed is part of the exposure triangle with aperture and ISO. Selecting a shutter speed in relation to the ISO and aperture to get you the desired results is part of the creative process.

Slower shutter speeds can allow you to use creative blur to, for example, give a sense of motion by blurring a ball that's being pitched to a batter in a baseball game. It can also be used to give a milky or cotton like quality to moving water that many people like.
In my first post I failed to answer the second par... (show quote)


Let's not forget as well the ubiquity of in-camera and in-lens stabilization in today's gear, which allows greater leeway in avoiding blurred results.

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Sep 15, 2021 13:26:47   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Emphasizing the impact of Image Stabilization, it really throws the 1/focal-length "rule" out the window. Although, that rule is worth remembering when considering the impact or 'support' of the IS. If you find you need about 1/100 sec to reliable get sharp (steady) focus with an unstabilized 50mm lens on a crop sensor, you should test your IS-enabled lens at 1- and 2- and 3-stops slower to get your own sense of your abilities using the IS. 1-stop down from 1/100sec is 1/50sec, 2-stop is 1/25sec and 3-stop 1/12sec. Even with IS-support and a wider lens than 50mm, I personally can barely / rarely hold a camera / lens steady below 1/15sec.
Emphasizing the impact of Image Stabilization, it ... (show quote)


How slow a shutter speed can be used can be significantly impacted by how rigidly you are able to hold your camera. There are standing and arm positioning techniques that can improve that rigidity. Properly controlled breathing and proper shutter button technique can also help. In addition mirrorless cameras which eliminate motion blur due to mirror shake can help as well. I suspect that a person with no physical issues and good technique using a mirrorless camera with a stabilized lens in addition to IBIS could get a fair amount of keepers at 1/8 or even 1/4 second, a two stop difference from your 1/15. I have had some success at 1/8 second, but rarely ever get a keeper at 1/4.

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Sep 15, 2021 13:34:20   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
MDI Mainer wrote:
Let's not forget as well the ubiquity of in-camera and in-lens stabilization in today's gear, which allows greater leeway in avoiding blurred results.


I specifically mentioned that in my post. But in any case IBIS won't help for fast moving subjects requiring faster shutter speeds.

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Sep 16, 2021 07:15:57   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
To be technically correct, exposure is simply the amount of light and the amount of time that light passes through a lens, aperture and shutter speed. Photographic Exposure uses those two and the sensitivity of a photo-sensitive material, ISO.
--Bob
FreddB wrote:
As I understand it:
Exposure is determined by aperture + shutter speed + iso. Focal length is not part of the equation.
Focal length is “fixed” by the physical properties of the lens. 50mm is 50mm.
Using the lens on a DX camera (“crop factor”), reduces the angle of view, capturing a smaller area of the scene. The resulting “cropped” photo gives you the illusion of increased reach.

If that’s not the case, someone please feel free to correct me.

I guess I have to learn to type faster.
Several others responded while I was diddling along.
As I understand it: br Exposure is determined by a... (show quote)

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Sep 16, 2021 08:47:15   #
BurghByrd Loc: Pittsburgh
 
sl7346 wrote:
Hi...everyone,
I still don't understand the Focal Lenght for crop sensor cameras. I have a canon 70d and use the 50mm lens. So, what is my focal lenght or the shutter speed for proper exposure for this lens?
Thanks advance for reply......


For the cameras you are refering to the distance from the lens mount to the sensor plane is the same therfore the round image cast by the lens is the same. The difference is that one has a full frame sensor (~24x36mm in this case) and the other (~16x24mm). Illustrate this by drawing a circle on a piece of paper (doesn't have to be exact) and in that circle draw a rectangle that just fits the circle corner to corner; that represents a full frame 24x36 sensor. Within that draw a smaller rectangle which represents a smaller 16x24 sensor. These two represent the two images that would be captured by the same lens, essentially a crop of the larger image. Capturing that "cropped" image would take a longer lens on the full frame sensor. Another way of describing the two images is angle of view. A 50mm lens on a full frame camera produces a 47 degree angle of view but the same lens on a 16x24mm APS-C sensor produces a 32 degree angle of view (zoomed in or cropped if you wish). Producing the same angle of view on a full frame camera would take a 76mm lens; a 1.4 multiplication factor is commonly used. Differences in exposure will be due to differences in the sensitivity of the two sensors (which should be "normalized" by ISO setting) and what's being "seen"; a smaller view may not capture as much sky for example. Other than that I can't think of why the exposure would be different.

I hope this helps.

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Sep 16, 2021 09:00:46   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
Once again folks miss the subtle image alteration that a crop sensor imparts on a FF frame lens. It simply does not result in the same visual statement in regard to DOF... That would only happen if the FF frame lens was used on a FF body at the EXACT same position that produced the crop sensor image. Which for Canon FF would 1.6x further away.

While you may pontificate all you wish here it will not change this brutal reality and the REASON highly experienced folks shoot portraiture with FF bodies (provided that they wish to cherish the subject isolation FF provides)... Crop bodies are sadly challenged with producing epic Bokeh...

DOF of a Canon Crop body will always be 1.6x greater for an identical SIZE image (all other factors equal)... Thus a breathtaking f/1.4 becomes a mundane f/2.0 on a crop body with respect to it's "Bokeh" effect.

If sl7346 is shooting crop he/she would surely benefit from migrating to FF if he/she want to go wide. Crop bodies a hamstrung going wide... and you may have a huge cost penalty in purchase of wide angle optics for crop bodies...

btw I've not known any commercial portrait shooters who migrated to FF that ever went back to "Crop".
Experience is a brutal teacher...

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Sep 16, 2021 09:14:33   #
BurghByrd Loc: Pittsburgh
 
Thomas902 wrote:


While you may pontificate all you wish here ---


I hope you weren't refering to me with the derogitory term pontificate, I was just trying to answer the man's question.

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Sep 16, 2021 09:14:41   #
WJShaheen Loc: Gold Canyon, AZ
 
mwsilvers wrote:
Focal length of a lens does not change. Your 50 mm lens is still 50 mm no matter what type of camera it's mounted on. However, when you put that lens on a crop sensor camera which has a smaller sensor area, as a result of the smaller lens image circle it gives you the impression that your camera has zoomed in a bit compared to a full-frame camera and the focal length has changed. But in fact it is not changed. 50 mm is always 50 mm. What has happened is that the smaller sensor has changed the angle of view and is giving you a full-frame cameras view equivalent to 80 mm. That is often referred to as the crop factor, and for Canon cameras the crop factor is 1.6. When you multiply 50 mm times 1.6 you get the equivalent full frame angle of view of 80 mm.
Focal length of a lens does not change. Your 50 mm... (show quote)


Nicely said.

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Sep 16, 2021 09:21:36   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
With Canon a cropped camera is 1.4 times the lens of the full lens reading. That is a lens showing 100mm is 140mm
a 50mm is 70mm. Take the lens as marked and times it by 1.4. I mark my lenses with the sizes by taping a sticker on the lens caps. I have both full and non full cameras so it looks like this on my tabs 100/140 or on zoom 50-70/200-280.

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Sep 16, 2021 09:47:42   #
sl7346 Loc: Minnesota
 
Thanks for the reply

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Sep 16, 2021 09:48:26   #
sl7346 Loc: Minnesota
 
Thanks for the reply

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Sep 16, 2021 09:48:58   #
sl7346 Loc: Minnesota
 
Thanks for the reply

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Sep 16, 2021 09:53:46   #
sl7346 Loc: Minnesota
 
Thanks for the reply

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Sep 16, 2021 09:55:08   #
sl7346 Loc: Minnesota
 
Thanks for the reply

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Sep 16, 2021 10:16:02   #
DE Stein
 
sl7346 wrote:
Hi...everyone,
I still don't understand the Focal Lenght for crop sensor cameras. I have a canon 70d and use the 50mm lens. So, what is my focal lenght or the shutter speed for proper exposure for this lens?
Thanks advance for reply......


Please allow me to piggy-back on this question with my own... I've read so much about the benefits of an 85mm lens for portrait work. But when I think about this in relation to my Canon 80D, I wonder if an 85mm will give me the same results, or if I should use my 50mm instead (80mm equiv).

How do I need to think about the unique qualities of a 50mm for portraits against the crop-factor? Just because the crop-factor gets me closer to 85mm, doesn't mean my 50mm is going to 'act' differently, right? So, would I be better off buying an actual 85mm lens? This can become quite confusing! Thanks so much!

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