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The New (Lumber) Math
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Sep 10, 2021 13:01:10   #
2Dragons Loc: The Back of Beyond
 
BigDaddy wrote:
That's because it costs cash to kiln dry lumber and mill it to standard dimensions. People have been building stuff with green, rough cut lumber for 1000's of years. Most builders find it is much better to pay for kiln dried lumber milled to standard sizes. Moreover, green lumber rough cut to 2x4 won't stay there for long. The size will immediately change to almost random dimensions after cutting, not to mention serious twisting, cracking and checking over time. Jerry thinks 1/32" is a problem. He'd love using green, rough cut lumber I bet...
That's because it costs cash to kiln dry lumber an... (show quote)


We haven't had any problem with twisting and the only problem we had with checking was on the 8"X8" supports we used. We were careful to flip boards into new piles if we weren't going to use them right away so that they would dry uniformly without warping. Those buildings have been up since 1996 and are just as tight as when newly constructed.

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Sep 10, 2021 13:29:26   #
clint f. Loc: Priest Lake Idaho, Spokane Wa
 
BigDaddy wrote:
That's because it costs cash to kiln dry lumber and mill it to standard dimensions. People have been building stuff with green, rough cut lumber for 1000's of years. Most builders find it is much better to pay for kiln dried lumber milled to standard sizes. Moreover, green lumber rough cut to 2x4 won't stay there for long. The size will immediately change to almost random dimensions after cutting, not to mention serious twisting, cracking and checking over time. Jerry thinks 1/32" is a problem. He'd love using green, rough cut lumber I bet...
That's because it costs cash to kiln dry lumber an... (show quote)


Not to mention rough cut isn’t graded. It’s all number one until kiln dried, planed and graded. Not everything is a conspiracy to take your money. Capitalism operates on the theory that competition keeps the price low because all else being equal consumers will go with the lower price. If prices are the same they’ll go with the best quality. You do have to consider convenience, customer service and a myriad of other factors. Even tax rates ie; people in Washington State border towns the consumers take advantage of no sales tax Oregon for many purchases. In theory you are supposed to pay the difference to Washington but nobody does, human beings being human.

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Sep 10, 2021 15:55:59   #
paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I almost laughed at this. I was in Lowe's buying some lumber. At the beginning of the lumber aisle, they have a sign explaining lumber sizes. For example, "7/16" = 1/2". Nothing is what it seems anymore. I got used to 1 1/2" 2 x 4s, but now plywood is thinner. At least it's still 4' X 8', but 3/4" = 23/32". This is a perfect situation for the metric system.

Plywood.com says this is trivial, and dimensional lumber is also undersized. (If they can do it, we can do it.) Although a reduction of 1/32" in thickness isn't going to matter on a home project, it does matter if you're making plywood. They save 144 cu in on each sheet of plywood. After they make twenty-four sheets, and they get one for free. It's not about manufacturing or furniture; it's about making money. I didn't notice a reduction in the price of plywood when they began making it thinner.
Plywood does not shrink. And the other wood is measured before it is cut and the cut allows for the blade.

http://theplywood.com/thickness

Yes, I'm complaining about losing 1/32". Ridiculous, I know.
I almost laughed at this. I was in Lowe's buying ... (show quote)


It depends where the lumber is cut/made. If it is foreign, it is the dimensions you state but if it is made in America 1/2 in will be 1/2 inch. At least that is the last I CHECKED. But if you are making something and cut a 3/4 dado the smaller board will cause you a problem and the router bits come in 3/4 inch unless you want to special buy the smaller size.
PLYWOOD does not shrink. The 2x4 dimension is before it is cut and the difference is the blade take off.

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Sep 10, 2021 16:21:53   #
Bridges Loc: Memphis, Charleston SC, now Nazareth PA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I almost laughed at this. I was in Lowe's buying some lumber. At the beginning of the lumber aisle, they have a sign explaining lumber sizes. For example, "7/16" = 1/2". Nothing is what it seems anymore. I got used to 1 1/2" 2 x 4s, but now plywood is thinner. At least it's still 4' X 8', but 3/4" = 23/32". This is a perfect situation for the metric system.

Plywood.com says this is trivial, and dimensional lumber is also undersized. (If they can do it, we can do it.) Although a reduction of 1/32" in thickness isn't going to matter on a home project, it does matter if you're making plywood. They save 144 cu in on each sheet of plywood. After they make twenty-four sheets, and they get one for free. It's not about manufacturing or furniture; it's about making money. I didn't notice a reduction in the price of plywood when they began making it thinner.

http://theplywood.com/thickness

Yes, I'm complaining about losing 1/32". Ridiculous, I know.
I almost laughed at this. I was in Lowe's buying ... (show quote)


Another example of your Ice Cream dilemma! Maybe like Friendlies there is a wood company that still will give you the whole half gallon! !

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Sep 10, 2021 16:45:38   #
Smudgey Loc: Ohio, Calif, Now Arizona
 
It would seem only fair then that we apply the same principle to payment for the lumber .75 cents would equal $1.00 and $1.50 would be the same as $2.00 and so on. Wonder if Home Depot would go for that.

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Sep 10, 2021 18:28:35   #
crushr13 Loc: Sacramento, CA
 
No, this reduction in size is very confusing to beginners, unless they know about it going in. A few years back, I had to build a stand for the house for my bearded dragon, so he could be in the livingroom and be seen by everyone. When I went to the lumberyard to buy the materials for the stand I designed off the top of my head, I thought it would be perfect. When I got there and looked at the wood I was going to have cut to size, I thought it looked a bit small. So, I found a measuring tape, and found the size discrepancies mentioned in this post. I had to go home, and redesign everything on my shopping list, so I would get the right stuff for it to fit together properly, and get it cut correctly, as I have no saws but a handsaw, which would not do the job in an untrained hand like mine. By doing that reconfiguration, it worked out very well, and is very stable. I don't have a picture, but it still stands in my livingroom doing something other than its original purpose. But knowing the size is different than advertised is critical.

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Sep 10, 2021 20:31:03   #
clint f. Loc: Priest Lake Idaho, Spokane Wa
 
paulrph1 wrote:
It depends where the lumber is cut/made. If it is foreign, it is the dimensions you state but if it is made in America 1/2 in will be 1/2 inch. At least that is the last I CHECKED. But if you are making something and cut a 3/4 dado the smaller board will cause you a problem and the router bits come in 3/4 inch unless you want to special buy the smaller size.
PLYWOOD does not shrink. The 2x4 dimension is before it is cut and the difference is the blade take off.


4/4 S2S is 13/16 according to NHLA rules no matter where you get it. 3/4 Plywood is 23/32. There are router bits commonly available for dados where plywood is used to fill the dado cavity. The foreign plywood is metric sized but Canadian plywood is the same as US equivalent since it is commonly imported. Shrinkage in solid wood boards is in width but so little in thickness as to be a non issue. The nominal vs actual size in plywood is a product of the sanding process. The reason we use plywood is because of its dimensional stability and the faces can be exotic wood with less expensive common wood cores.

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Sep 11, 2021 07:53:59   #
elliott937 Loc: St. Louis
 
Since I teach in a world of metric, thanks for supporting the idea.

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Sep 11, 2021 08:40:33   #
BigDaddy Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
Smudgey wrote:
It would seem only fair then that we apply the same principle to payment for the lumber .75 cents would equal $1.00 and $1.50 would be the same as $2.00 and so on. Wonder if Home Depot would go for that.

Of course that is exactly what we do. The purchasing power of your money fluctuates WAY more than the size of 2x4's and plywood. It seems you need to study up a bit on standard lumber sizes as well econ101.

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