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Stuck polarizing filter
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May 25, 2021 13:41:05   #
mikee
 
mikee wrote:
Can soak in warm soapy water. Or can take to on optometrist, jewelry store, or most vets and use their ultrasonic cleaner.


Sorry, didn't see the soapy wayer references before. But if soapy water goes in, soapy water can be rinsed out. Can also use ultrasonic cleaner with distilled water.

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May 25, 2021 15:02:45   #
Guzser02
 
-center: check to make sure that the mount is concentric to the filter. Out of roundness would impede the free rotation.
-[put one of the filters in the freezer for about 15 minutes] then blow air from four (4) points to loosen up or free up any dust, or grit. Some liquid lubricants attract and retain dust particles.
I would strongly advise against any liquid cleaners and/or lubricants.

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May 25, 2021 15:23:36   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
wdross wrote:
Polarization is done by rotating two gratings. It uses the electro-mechanical propers of light to create the affect. The gratings are sandwiched between two pieces of glass. In other words, polarizers are built using 2 gratings and 4 pieces of glass in a rotating frame. Each grating is sandwiched between two pieces of glass. If the edges are not sealed, liquids can be drawn up by capillary action into the spaces between the grating lines. This will render the filter to junk. This is one of the reasons for the Kaesemann design (not the only one). B+W is one of the only manufacturers of such. That design will allow a drop of oil or soapy water since the sealed edge prevents any capillary action. I still would not suggest oil or soapy water since it could still get into the space between the two glass / grating sandwiches. Taking the filter apart is actually the best way to correct the problem, Kaesemann design or not. Otherwise, one uses the filter as is or, as some have suggested, one throws it away. I haven't priced it, but I would think it would be slightly cheaper to take them to the camera repair shop rather than buy new filters.
Polarization is done by rotating two gratings. It ... (show quote)

That's interesting as my polarized sun glassed do not have two glass elements that I must rotate ONE, I just rotate the lens (my head) to see the effect. I wonder why they would go to all the trouble to make camera polarizers of two pieces of glass where one rotates. I believe they just use one piece of glass. I can see variable neutral density filters using two polarized glass elements, but not a polarizer. PLUS, if you hold a polarizer in your hand and rotate the entire assembly (not holding the mounting ring), you see the polarizing effect. How would you explain that?

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May 25, 2021 17:26:44   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
terpfan wrote:
I have several B&W polarizing filters which are virtually impossible to rotate. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance. Just to clarify, I can easily remove them from the lens, just can't rotate the filter on the lens.


Supposedly, B&W filters have BRASS frames - if that means anything to anyone .....
.

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May 25, 2021 19:53:51   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Longshadow wrote:
Okay, I'll bite, what's the "Kaesemann design"?
Many people registering concerns of stiff rotation reference B&W. Coincidence?


One correction about my description of polarizer construction: the filter with two gratings is actually for variable neutral density filter. With a standard polarizing filter, the first "grating" is the polarization of light by Mother nature. The "second" grating in the filter then blocks a certain directionally polarized portions of the light. With a variable density filter, all the light is polarizer in one direction by the first grating and then the second grating starts blocking the polarized light as the front portion of the filter is turned. Same basic principle for both types of filters. It is just that mother nature rarely polarizes all the light in one direction. This allows one to choose which polarized reflections to block. Still doesn't change the grating "sandwich" and whether or not the edges are sealed. But the capillary action is only stopped by sealing the edges.

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May 25, 2021 20:41:42   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
wdross wrote:
One correction about my description of polarizer construction: the filter with two gratings is actually for variable neutral density filter. With a standard polarizing filter, the first "grating" is the polarization of light by Mother nature. The "second" grating in the filter then blocks a certain directionally polarized portions of the light. With a variable density filter, all the light is polarizer in one direction by the first grating and then the second grating starts blocking the polarized light as the front portion of the filter is turned. Same basic principle for both types of filters. It is just that mother nature rarely polarizes all the light in one direction. This allows one to choose which polarized reflections to block. Still doesn't change the grating "sandwich" and whether or not the edges are sealed. But the capillary action is only stopped by sealing the edges.
One correction about my description of polarizer c... (show quote)

WOW, I did find an article that purports two pieces of glass in a polarizer filter, with one rotating!!!
"How do I use a polarizing filter?
Most polarizers are circular, screw-in filters. A polarizing filter is actually two pieces of glass put together. The front piece rotates, while the other piece doesn’t. Rotating the front of the filter will change the intensity of the reflections, or the intensity of the color saturation effect."

https://www.shawacademy.com/blog/ultimate-guide-polarizing-filters/

And this about the filter constructed of sandwiched optical elements:
"The polarizing filter features a dichroic absorbing layer sandwiched between two layers of glass."
(Would the "sandwiched" elements really have a capillary action to get a liquid between them?
I suppose it depends on the sandwiching method.)
https://ascmag.com/blog/shot-craft/understanding-polarizing-filters

I'm guessing ONE of these articles is correct.
My money is on the second......

And this is how bad information keeps propagating, I saw it on the net. But that's another comment in another thread.

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May 25, 2021 20:57:35   #
frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.
 
Longshadow wrote:
WOW, I did find an article that purports two pieces of glass in a polarizer filter, with one rotating!!!
"How do I use a polarizing filter?
Most polarizers are circular, screw-in filters. A polarizing filter is actually two pieces of glass put together. The front piece rotates, while the other piece doesn’t. Rotating the front of the filter will change the intensity of the reflections, or the intensity of the color saturation effect."

https://www.shawacademy.com/blog/ultimate-guide-polarizing-filters/

And this about the filter constructed of sandwiched optical elements:
"The polarizing filter features a dichroic absorbing layer sandwiched between two layers of glass."
(Would the "sandwiched" elements really have a capillary action to get a liquid between them.
I suppose it depends on the sandwiching method.)
https://ascmag.com/blog/shot-craft/understanding-polarizing-filters

I'm guessing ONE of these articles is correct.
My money is on the second......

And this is how bad information keeps propagating, I saw it on the net. But that's another comment in another thread.
WOW, I did find an article that purports two piece... (show quote)



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May 25, 2021 21:49:33   #
Leitz Loc: Solms
 
imagemeister wrote:
Supposedly, B&W filters have BRASS frames -

B+W filters also have brass frames.

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May 26, 2021 01:03:42   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Longshadow wrote:
WOW, I did find an article that purports two pieces of glass in a polarizer filter, with one rotating!!!
"How do I use a polarizing filter?
Most polarizers are circular, screw-in filters. A polarizing filter is actually two pieces of glass put together. The front piece rotates, while the other piece doesn’t. Rotating the front of the filter will change the intensity of the reflections, or the intensity of the color saturation effect."

https://www.shawacademy.com/blog/ultimate-guide-polarizing-filters/

And this about the filter constructed of sandwiched optical elements:
"The polarizing filter features a dichroic absorbing layer sandwiched between two layers of glass."
(Would the "sandwiched" elements really have a capillary action to get a liquid between them?
I suppose it depends on the sandwiching method.)
https://ascmag.com/blog/shot-craft/understanding-polarizing-filters

I'm guessing ONE of these articles is correct.
My money is on the second......

And this is how bad information keeps propagating, I saw it on the net. But that's another comment in another thread.
WOW, I did find an article that purports two piece... (show quote)


Wikipedia is much more detailed: both the articles you cite are correct depending on which type of method of polarization. One more quote to let your mind chew on:

"Wire-grid polarizers

One of the simplest linear polarizers is the wire-grid polarizer (WGP), which consists of many fine parallel metallic wires placed in a plane. WGPs mostly reflect the non-transmitted polarization and can thus be used as polarizing beam splitters. The parasitic absorption is relatively high compared to most of the dielectric polarizers though much lower than in absorptive polarizers."

Key here is "One of the simplest". A circular polarizer has a linear polarizer followed by a quarter wave glass plate. And there are other types of ways to creative the necessary polarization. But the fine wire grating is one of the simplest.

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May 26, 2021 03:53:19   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Longshadow wrote:
WOW, I did find an article that purports two pieces of glass in a polarizer filter, with one rotating!!!
"How do I use a polarizing filter?
Most polarizers are circular, screw-in filters. A polarizing filter is actually two pieces of glass put together. The front piece rotates, while the other piece doesn’t. Rotating the front of the filter will change the intensity of the reflections, or the intensity of the color saturation effect."

https://www.shawacademy.com/blog/ultimate-guide-polarizing-filters/

And this about the filter constructed of sandwiched optical elements:
"The polarizing filter features a dichroic absorbing layer sandwiched between two layers of glass."
(Would the "sandwiched" elements really have a capillary action to get a liquid between them?
I suppose it depends on the sandwiching method.)
https://ascmag.com/blog/shot-craft/understanding-polarizing-filters

I'm guessing ONE of these articles is correct.
My money is on the second......

And this is how bad information keeps propagating, I saw it on the net. But that's another comment in another thread.
WOW, I did find an article that purports two piece... (show quote)


Again, Kaesemann has specific polarizing foil design and the edges of the polarization "sandwich" are sealed. The sealing is one of main selling points for a Kaesemann filter and, in my opinion, worth the extra cost. It helps to prevent one from buying a filter more than once and allows one to shoot in the rain without worrying if the foil will get damaged.

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May 26, 2021 05:01:28   #
Don, the 2nd son Loc: Crowded Florida
 
Silicon lube!

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May 26, 2021 07:22:06   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
wdross wrote:
Wikipedia is much more detailed: both the articles you cite are correct depending on which type of method of polarization. One more quote to let your mind chew on:

"Wire-grid polarizers

One of the simplest linear polarizers is the wire-grid polarizer (WGP), which consists of many fine parallel metallic wires placed in a plane. WGPs mostly reflect the non-transmitted polarization and can thus be used as polarizing beam splitters. The parasitic absorption is relatively high compared to most of the dielectric polarizers though much lower than in absorptive polarizers."

Key here is "One of the simplest". A circular polarizer has a linear polarizer followed by a quarter wave glass plate. And there are other types of ways to creative the necessary polarization. But the fine wire grating is one of the simplest.
Wikipedia is much more detailed: both the articles... (show quote)

Interesting...
Still one piece of glass, not two that rotate independently.

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May 26, 2021 07:52:25   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
wdross wrote:
Again, Kaesemann has specific polarizing foil design and the edges of the polarization "sandwich" are sealed. The sealing is one of main selling points for a Kaesemann filter and, in my opinion, worth the extra cost. It helps to prevent one from buying a filter more than once and allows one to shoot in the rain without worrying if the foil will get damaged.

Then no capillary action with liquids getting between the pieces parts.

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May 26, 2021 17:14:24   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Longshadow wrote:
Then no capillary action with liquids getting between the pieces parts.


Absolutely. I suspect some of the other materials that can be used for polarization are sandwiched between glass for protecting the material and adding strength. And, although some are probably a soft soild, it may still be susceptible to moisture and growing mold. These kinds would also benefit from sealing too but may not be based on the manufacturer's cost/benefit and repair/replacement analysis.

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