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Macro lens
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Apr 29, 2021 08:38:25   #
Winslowe
 
amfoto1 wrote:
Longer macro lenses like 150mm, 180mm and 200mm give you more working distance, but are more difficult to hold steady and render shallower depth of field, which is already in short supply at high magnifications. As a result you have to stop down the longer lenses more, which in turn means slower shutter speeds or higher ISOs. There's a reason 150mm, 180mm and 200mm macro lenses come with a tripod mounting collar!

So, again, in my opinion for general purpose macro a good compromise is the 90 to 105mm range. That still gives you quite a few to choose among. The video linked in this article doesn't cover them all, but might help with some of the choices (a couple lenses in the comparison aren't an option for use on a Nikon camera, and one is manual focus only): https://petapixel.com/2020/04/15/macro-lens-test-canon-nikon-sony-laowa-sigma-and-tamron-compared/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> https://petapixel.com/2020/04/15/macro-lens-test-canon-nikon-sony-laowa-sigma-and-tamron-compared/

To me the Sigma 105mm seems the best value. It used to be the most expensive, but the price was reduced significantly within the last year. Now at $570 it's nearly $330 less than the Nikkor 105mm. And the Sigma has among the best images quality and a full set of features.

At $429 the Tokina ATX-i 100mm is the least expensive true macro lens with auto focus available. It's a pretty good lens, with a couple quirks. For one, the Nikon mount version of it doesn't have a built-in focusing motor. As a result, on some Nikon cameras it's manual focus only. This isn't a problem with your D750, because that has the in-body focusing motor for lenses of this type (which also include the Nikkor AF 200mm f/4 and the Nikkor AF 60mm f/2.8D). While this won't effect your use of the lens, it may effect the resale value of the lens should you ever decide to sell it.

Another "quirk" of the Tokina 100mm is that it uses a "focus clutch" mechanism. The entire focus ring is slid forward or backward to switch from manual to auto focus. When it's set to the AF mode, you cannot override and tweak focus manually. You have to first shift it into MF mode. This is not the case with the Nikon AF-S, Tamron USD and Sigma HSM lenses.... all of those allow manual tweaks to focus while still set to AF mode.

Finally, the Tokina 100mm and a couple other lenses are not internal focusing. This means they increase in length when focused closer, which may reduce working distance between the front of the lens and your subject. Other macro lenses that aren't internal focusing include the Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D (but the AF-S 60mm f/2.8G is internal focusing). The older, less expensive non-VC, non-USD version of the Tamron 90mm also was not internal focusing.

Like all lenses, the specification of macro lenses list a "minimum focus distance", but this isn't the same as "working distance". MFD is the distance from the film/sensor plane to the subject when the lens is set to it's closest possible focus. With non-macro lenses this is fine... but with macro lenses those distances are pretty short so it can be significant that some of the MFD is occupied by part of the camera (approx. 1.75") and by the lens itself. When a lens extends a lot at MFD, it occupies more of that space.

Working distance has to be calculated deducting the length of the lens and part of the camera from MFD. What remains is the distance from the front of the lens and the subject at maximum magnification. (Without a hood or any other accessories installed on the lens.)

Price, MFD and approx. working distance for some of the popular options (least to most expensive):

Tokina ATX-i 100mm f/2.8.... $429.... 11.81" MFD... 4.09" working distance.
Sigma 105mm f/2.8 OS HSM... $569... 12.28" MFD... 5.26" working distance.
Nikkor AF-S 60mm f/2.8G... $597... 7.2" MFD... 1.95" working distance.
Tamron 90mm f/2.8 VC USD... $649... 11.81" MFD... 5.15" working distance.
Nikkor AF-S 105mm f/2.8 VR... $897... 12.01" MFD... 5.39" working distance.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/SLR-Camera-Lenses/ci/274/N/4288584247?sort=PRICE_LOW_TO_HIGH&filters=fct_a_focus-type_5738%3Aautofocus%2Cfct_lens-format-coverage_3332%3Afull-frame-lenses%2Cfct_lens-mount_3442%3Anikon-f%2Cfct_special-designs_3320%3Amacro

There are other things to consider, such as whether or not a lens has a focus limiter. Macro lenses need to move their focusing groups a long, long way to go from infinity to 1:1 magnification a few inches in front of the lens. Also, most macro lenses use a "long throw" focus design that emphasizes focus accuracy over focus speed. The limiter can help the lens perform better in some situations. For example, the Sigma 105mm has a three-position limiter with one setting that gives the full range of focus, another that's non-macro distances only and a third that's close-up and macro only. This can be a useful feature at times when you're shooting only macro... or using the lens as a short telephoto for only non-macro purposes. Check the specs on the other lenses to see what they have.
Longer macro lenses like 150mm, 180mm and 200mm gi... (show quote)

"Longer macro lenses like 150mm, 180mm and 200mm give you more working distance, but are more difficult to hold steady and render shallower depth of field"
Fact: Depth of field at any given magnification and aperture will be the same, regardless of the focal length.
"Finally, the Tokina 100mm and a couple other lenses are not internal focusing. This means they increase in length when focused closer, which may reduce working distance between the front of the lens and your subject."
Fact: An internal focus lens will provide less working distance than an external focus lens of the same focal length.

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Apr 29, 2021 09:06:37   #
Doc Mck Loc: Terrell,Texas
 
I like mine also

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Apr 29, 2021 10:10:58   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Winslowe wrote:
"Longer macro lenses like 150mm, 180mm and 200mm give you more working distance, but are more difficult to hold steady and render shallower depth of field"
Fact: Depth of field at any given magnification and aperture will be the same, regardless of the focal length.


This one is a hard one to swallow, but it is true. Any image, macro or not, exposed with the same f/stop and framing will have the same depth of field, whether achieved with a wide angle, normal, or telephoto lens.

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Apr 29, 2021 12:20:34   #
Bridges Loc: Memphis, Charleston SC, now Nazareth PA
 
larryepage wrote:
This one is a hard one to swallow, but it is true. Any image, macro or not, exposed with the same f/stop and framing will have the same depth of field, whether achieved with a wide angle, normal, or telephoto lens.


You are right. There has always been the myth of telephoto "compaction" and there isn't really. I saw a demonstration once where a wide angle lens and a telephoto lens shot a scene down a street, the elevation of which was going up hill. It looked like the buildings at the far end of the street were "compacted" into a tighter grouping with the telephoto lens. Then the person giving the talk cropped the wide angle shot to the exact dimensions of the telephoto shot and the photo looked the same as shot with the telephoto lens.

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Apr 29, 2021 13:58:50   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
"... Then the person giving the talk cropped the wide angle shot to the exact dimensions of the telephoto shot and the photo looked the same as shot with the telephoto lens..." Really? If taken from the same exact position and you zoom in one to one on both the wide angle image will likely have the pixels clearly visible...

So that may work well if you're after the effect of the French Impressionist like Monet... but try and submit that for publication and you'll be the laughing stock of the editors office...

Get over it... Telephotos are used for portraiture for compelling reasons... show me a portrait photographer using ultra-wides and I'll show you a staving artist...

We are talking two dimensional art here... where optical illusions are the rule NOT the exception.
https://nasco-education-blog.com/2018/01/25/the-science-of-optical-illusions/

Getting so tried of these endless debates over a silly visual paradox...
Maybe get out and try to make money with your wide angle optics, Mike?
Other than for real-estate commercial shooters they are are oddities for enthusiast.

btw, I'm a major fan of Nazareth PA Mike... been playing my Martin guitar for decades.
Martin's factor in Nazareth PA is the epicenter of six string design... and has been since before Moses parted the Red Sea... All the best on your epic journey Mike :)

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Apr 29, 2021 16:58:38   #
Bridges Loc: Memphis, Charleston SC, now Nazareth PA
 
Thomas902 wrote:
"... Then the person giving the talk cropped the wide angle shot to the exact dimensions of the telephoto shot and the photo looked the same as shot with the telephoto lens..." Really? If taken from the same exact position and you zoom in one to one on both the wide angle image will likely have the pixels clearly visible...

So that may work well if you're after the effect of the French Impressionist like Monet... but try and submit that for publication and you'll be the laughing stock of the editors office...

Get over it... Telephotos are used for portraiture for compelling reasons... show me a portrait photographer using ultra-wides and I'll show you a staving artist...

We are talking two dimensional art here... where optical illusions are the rule NOT the exception.
https://nasco-education-blog.com/2018/01/25/the-science-of-optical-illusions/

Getting so tried of these endless debates over a silly visual paradox...
Maybe get out and try to make money with your wide angle optics, Mike?
Other than for real-estate commercial shooters they are are oddities for enthusiast.

btw, I'm a major fan of Nazareth PA Mike... been playing my Martin guitar for decades.
Martin's factor in Nazareth PA is the epicenter of six string design... and has been since before Moses parted the Red Sea... All the best on your epic journey Mike :)
"... Then the person giving the talk cropped ... (show quote)


It was just done as an example, nothing was being published. It was to illustrate that what we perceive as telephoto lens compacting is more our perception than what actually happens. I have to laugh at your comment about wide angle lenses. It reminds me of one of the guys that test for DP Review. He hates 35mm prime lenses and always makes fun of people who have to have one. Nazareth is a great little community and yes, Martin Guitar is well thought of around here. Have you taken the tour of the factory? They allow photos to be taken but no flash. I'm not a guitar player and have not taken the tour but it is on my bucket list to do this summer. Great optical illusions on that site you listed. The green and blue circles/wheels are really crazy -- just can't keep them from going around!

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Apr 30, 2021 06:13:03   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Winslowe wrote:
"Longer macro lenses like 150mm, 180mm and 200mm give you more working distance, but are more difficult to hold steady and render shallower depth of field"
Fact: Depth of field at any given magnification and aperture will be the same, regardless of the focal length.
"Finally, the Tokina 100mm and a couple other lenses are not internal focusing. This means they increase in length when focused closer, which may reduce working distance between the front of the lens and your subject."
Fact: An internal focus lens will provide less working distance than an external focus lens of the same focal length.
"Longer macro lenses like 150mm, 180mm and 20... (show quote)


And the final fact is because internal lenses shorten the focal length at the minimum distance, so in effect it is not the same focal length. This is called focus breathing, and is usually not an issue unless you are focus stacking using the focus adjust method, which would change the field of view, as opposed to the camera position shift method which does not.

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Apr 30, 2021 10:29:17   #
Winslowe
 
Gene51 wrote:
And the final fact is because internal lenses shorten the focal length at the minimum distance, so in effect it is not the same focal length. This is called focus breathing, and is usually not an issue unless you are focus stacking using the focus adjust method, which would change the field of view, as opposed to the camera position shift method which does not.

It would take forever to find it, but quite awhile back someone here said they found that an internal focus lens only reduced the working distance by about 25mm versus an external focus lens. I think he was comparing 2 different Tokina 100mm macro lenses. At any rate, I agree that the only real concern might be when focus stacking.

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May 1, 2021 01:04:25   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
I would also suggest that you look into a good 2.8D version of this lens, or even the AF version. I own a 105 2.8D and a 60 2.8. I would consider both better than today's version. VR is just not needed for the work that I do. My 105 Micro is one of my favorite lenses. Best of luck.

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May 1, 2021 01:04:28   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
I would also suggest that you look into a good 2.8D version of this lens, or even the AF version. I own a 105 2.8D and a 60 2.8. I would consider both better than today's version. VR is just not needed for the work that I do. My 105 Micro is one of my favorite lenses. Best of luck.

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May 1, 2021 07:51:10   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Winslowe wrote:
It would take forever to find it, but quite awhile back someone here said they found that an internal focus lens only reduced the working distance by about 25mm versus an external focus lens. I think he was comparing 2 different Tokina 100mm macro lenses. At any rate, I agree that the only real concern might be when focus stacking.


Remember that 25mm is one inch. An inch can be a lot to give up when you only start with three or six. But what I've found does make a big difference is to preset focus at the short end of the distance scale so that the lens doesn't start extending when you start focusing, whether you are focus8ng manually or automatically.

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May 1, 2021 07:55:03   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
imagemeister wrote:
Both versions of the Sigma 70 macro have GREAT reviews - go for it ....
.



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May 1, 2021 09:55:04   #
Winslowe
 
larryepage wrote:
Remember that 25mm is one inch. An inch can be a lot to give up when you only start with three or six.

No doubt. Especially with a shorter lens, or when using a hood. Depends a lot on what type of auxiliary lighting you may be employing, also. For 105mm or less, I prefer the lens to extend, doesn't matter much to me for longer lenses.

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May 1, 2021 10:53:57   #
cactuspic Loc: Dallas, TX
 
Gene51 wrote:
And the final fact is because internal lenses shorten the focal length at the minimum distance, so in effect it is not the same focal length. This is called focus breathing, and is usually not an issue unless you are focus stacking using the focus adjust method, which would change the field of view, as opposed to the camera position shift method which does not.


However the result of perspective change at magnifications of 1:3 or less using camera shift yields greater distortion than focus breathing at that magnification. See an actual comparison of the results of the two methods by the author of Zerene software, Rik Littlefield. The software has less problems with the size change created by focus breathing than it does with the changing perspective created by moving the camera on the rail. http://zerenesystems.com/cms/stacker/docs/troubleshooting/ringversusrail.

added: This is true at least using Zerene Stacker software. I have not tested it with Helicon or Photoshop

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May 1, 2021 12:36:25   #
jackm1943 Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
 
cactuspic wrote:
However the result of perspective change at magnifications of 1:3 or less using camera shift yields greater distortion than focus breathing at that magnification. See an actual comparison of the results of the two methods by the author of Zerene software, Rik Littlefield. The software has less problems with the size change created by focus breathing than it does with the changing perspective created by moving the camera on the rail. http://zerenesystems.com/cms/stacker/docs/troubleshooting/ringversusrail.

added: This is true at least using Zerene Stacker software. I have not tested it with Helicon or Photoshop
However the result of perspective change at magnif... (show quote)


Littlefield's recommendations pretty much agree with my limited experiences. I try to focus stack using the ring down to about 1:1 and maybe even to 1:2. For anything greater I use my SWEBO screw rail. I haven't moved up to an automated rail or an in-camera capable body as of yet.

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