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A question of ETHICS
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Nov 11, 2011 12:04:36   #
pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"
 
Thanks! I just saved the photo from Italy for my background and printed and sold several copies. I'll mail a box of wine. Red or white? Just kidding of course. I agree that the quality would not be very good and probably a copyright issue.

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Nov 11, 2011 12:11:29   #
jolly1
 
alaskanfrog wrote:
If you take a photograph, and then give a copy of that photo to another person without copyrighting the photograph first, you forfeit your right to claim copyrights on that particular photo. By knowingly and willingly surrendering an image to another individual such as "Gifting" or telling the person or persons that they can "use" the image, as a photographer you have waived your rights to weigh claim to that photograph. If the person or recipient makes a painting of that photograph, then it's no longer a photograph, no matter how accurate it might look. It is in fact, another and a new creation and THAT painting is and can be subject to copyright protection. The creator of a painting of your photograph also has the right to claim it as an original painting and can choose to sell the painting if they wish.

By giving permission to use your photograph, even by word of mouth, you are surrendering and waiving your rights to make legal and copyright claims on that photograph.

However, If you copyrighted your photograph before giving permission, then it is your responsibility and the responsibility of the recipient to have such permissions put in writing in the form of an agreement. The agreement should outline what permissions you are giving and whether or not you retain ownership of the photograph. If you are retaining ownership of the photograph, then you are only giving and allowing the right to use the image, and the recipient cannot claim ownership of the photo itself. If you want to limit how the photograph can be used, then you have the right to outline the limitations in writing before surrendering and/or, giving permission to use your photograph. The agreement must follow the complex outlines that pertain to copyright laws in your area.

Copyright laws vary from state to state and can even vary from county to county. It's a good idea to familiarize yourself with any laws that pertain to legal copyrights for photographs. There are federal guidelines that also apply, so it's a good idea to research and to learn about the copyright laws and how they might apply to your photograph BEFORE you give permission to anyone to use them.

I posted several of my photos online, none are copyrighted. I do not have a copyright. Each and every time you want to copyright any of your photographs, you must file a legal document copyright claim for each individual copyright for each different photograph

I knew this before I uploaded any of my photographs. However I uploaded my photos knowing that for the most part I can actually trust the people in this website and that they would not impose their will on any of my photos, because these were taken by me and not you. If any of my photos suites your needs and you would like to use them, then by all means, feel free to do so. I would not have uploaded them if I didn't want them to be used. My only request is that you acknowledge me as the photographer and give credit where its due...
If you take a photograph, and then give a copy of ... (show quote)


Alaskanfrog, I don't know quite how to break this to you but,
One, Copyright Laws are Federal Laws and not controlled by the various States. Two, all of your photographs ARE already
under Copyright - your Copyright. Under the latest revisions of the Copyright Laws, your work is automatically copyrighted from the moment of creation.
You can send a letter, requesting a complete set of the Federal Copyright Laws, to their office in Washington, DC and obtain all the information you want. And, suprisingly enough, it's free.

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Nov 11, 2011 12:15:25   #
billwassmann Loc: Emerson, NJ
 
I spent 20 years in publishing and this is not the way I understand copyright. My photos are mine, even if I don't go through the formal copyright paperwork.
Bill Wassmann

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Nov 11, 2011 12:18:55   #
jolly1
 
jf65625 wrote:
Reply to alaskanfrog [Nov 11, 11 10:45:42]

As a retired attorney, I found your summary of copyright law very well written and understandable with a minimal amount of legalism. Thus, I recommend your post as Required Reading for all photographers & videographers.

Sure hope you share a lot of you Alaskan pix with use. I've had a couple of motorcycle tours to you magnificent state. Fantastic photo opps where every you look! By the way, I retired from that dreadful profession to pursue something worth the effort. Best regards, jf
Reply to alaskanfrog Nov 11, 11 10:45:42 br br ... (show quote)


Understanding that you are a retired attorney, I respectfully suggest that you update yourself on the latest Federal Copyright Laws. They have been made much simpler than when you were in practice. Free copies can be obtained, by writing, from the Federal Copyright Office in Washington, DC

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Nov 11, 2011 12:22:21   #
jolly1
 
billwassmann wrote:
I spent 20 years in publishing and this is not the way I understand copyright. My photos are mine, even if I don't go through the formal copyright paperwork.
Bill Wassmann




Bill, you are absolutely correct. Your work is under copyright from the moment you lay pen to paper, hit the release button on your camera, or make the first brush stroke on canvas.

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Nov 11, 2011 13:12:34   #
foghornleg90 Loc: All over USA - Medford, OR & Knoxville, TN
 
russelray wrote:
I've never been to a museum that DOESN'T allow you to take pictures of works of art. However, they disallow flash pictures.


Biltmore Estate - even with a press pass... no photography INSIDE. Which is sad because it's particularly beautiful in the spring, fall, and at Christmas... because of their decorations. The outside, gardens & orchids are fair game.

I've been to a few 'private' museums that don't allow any photography... and have even seen them kick people out for attempting to use cell phone cameras or pocket cameras without the flash on. Their verbal excuse is 'it degrades the art' (sorry, not unless there is a flash)... their real reason is selling their own licensed pictures, postcards, calendars, etc.

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Nov 11, 2011 13:16:44   #
forbescat
 
You can't take pictures in the Alamo...that was a shocker! I watched a girl take a picture with her cellphone and a guard was all over her but didn't make her delete. There are postcards to buy and a company stationed outside to take your picture with the Alamo for a background.

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Nov 11, 2011 14:11:03   #
Brucej67 Loc: Cary, NC
 
It is a shame that you can't take a picture in the Alamo, it is a public national historical site.

forbescat wrote:
You can't take pictures in the Alamo...that was a shocker! I watched a girl take a picture with her cellphone and a guard was all over her but didn't make her delete. There are postcards to buy and a company stationed outside to take your picture with the Alamo for a background.

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Nov 11, 2011 14:29:41   #
Rich Maher Loc: Sonoma County, CA
 
Sinatraman got it right. It's not your photo.

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Nov 11, 2011 14:46:52   #
martinfisherphoto Loc: Lake Placid Florida
 
I'm traveling back to Costa Rica next year to chase the Harpy Eagle down in the Osa to get a photo. That's one of the things photography is about. Case in Point, A Friend of mine sells Deer Antler Racks on Ebay. Great hunter and hunts for the meat and already has his trophies. First one he sold did not bring a good price, Second one and all the rest he sells brings Hugh price because he made it Private Bidder only. The guys would buy his racks for big bucks and take credit for the kill. I think anyone that takes credit for something, someone else accomplished be it Photo or Trophy Deer is a Loser. What's your thoughts on that??
ALYN wrote:
Recently, I was "fiddling" with my new camera. The TV was running--an animal program. Up came a segment on Harpy Eagles. I pushed the "pause" button and had a dandy pic of a young Harpy Eagle. I took a picture of that picture.
(QUESTIONS) Is that now my picture ? It could have been taken anywhere. If I use it anywhere, should (must) I give credit or explain how I got it ? (Very few Harpy Eagles in Indiana.) Maybe I should just wipe it out ! What do you experts think ?

ALYN
Recently, I was "fiddling" with my new c... (show quote)

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Nov 11, 2011 14:47:00   #
ThomasS Loc: Colorado
 
ALYN wrote:
Recently, I was "fiddling" with my new camera. The TV was running--an animal program. Up came a segment on Harpy Eagles. I pushed the "pause" button and had a dandy pic of a young Harpy Eagle. I took a picture of that picture.
(QUESTIONS) Is that now my picture ? It could have been taken anywhere. If I use it anywhere, should (must) I give credit or explain how I got it ? (Very few Harpy Eagles in Indiana.) Maybe I should just wipe it out ! What do you experts think ?

Come on guys, quit beating up on ALYN. He didn't say he was going to claim the picture as his or try to sell the damn thing. He just asked a question and you gave him an answer (in no uncertain terms).

ALYN
Recently, I was "fiddling" with my new c... (show quote)

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Nov 11, 2011 14:49:34   #
ThomasS Loc: Colorado
 
Brucej67 wrote:
It is a shame that you can't take a picture in the Alamo, it is a public national historical site.

forbescat wrote:
You can't take pictures in the Alamo...that was a shocker! I watched a girl take a picture with her cellphone and a guard was all over her but didn't make her delete. There are postcards to buy and a company stationed outside to take your picture with the Alamo for a background.


You used to able to, because I did it, although that was long ago. I have a relative who died there.

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Nov 11, 2011 14:58:03   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
Hi, Folks

Scot Kelby, author of many photography books, encourages taking pictures whenever allowed. He suggests that when the policy is "no tripods" he always gets away with a monopod. When questioned he just says, "Oh, this isn't a tripod...it is a monopod." So far they always let him continue.

Regards,
Larry Leach

English_Wolf wrote:
Each museum has it own policies many refuse folks taking picture with a flash and will let you almost set up a tripod as long as you do not add ANY light.

Other is a NO! policy strong enough to have you escorted out off the building by security...

I do not see the 'stealing when you take a picture for private use (otherwise why would their be postcard of artwork offered all over the place, legally?

No, stealing is a wrong word here that involves a crime. If you are good enough, have enough money and know t whom you ask, I am sure you can get some specialist to either make a replica hard to detect or simply steal the stuff... But enter another dimension here.
Each museum has it own policies many refuse folks ... (show quote)

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Nov 11, 2011 15:20:15   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
Hi,

There are two possible "its" in this thread. Which one were you addressing?

I see potential differences between a photo of someone else's work, a photo off a broadcast image of someone's work, and a painting made from a photo. But even that may get murky if one gets into Photoshopping it.

The one who was upset because someone painted a unique piece of art from their photo would be a happier person if s/he would instead choose to be flattered by the honor bestowed by valuing the composition. I certainly would be.

Lawyers make money encouraging such differences of opinion. They get paid on both sides of every legal dispute. I'd be careful putting too much attention on what one of them might offer other than facts; e.g. this is what the law says, this is how some cases came down, etc.

I read up on this some relative to some books I wrote. I understood from that copyright is implicit. You have it unless you explicitly give it up. Nonetheless everything I read suggests putting a little copyright statement on anything you want to assert the right on.

There is also a clear exception made for educational uses and for referring to works. For example the picture of the Eagle off a video should be fine if used with clear reference. Maybe in any case but for sure in the case of referring to the larger video work.

But I also know you can register works if you are paranoid. I don't have a clue as to what that does for you.

Regards,
Larry Leach

Off the point: does anyone know how to get the smileys into your message? (Revised: I see they came out at the bottom. Does anyone know how to put them in the text where you want?)



KrazyKyngeKorny wrote:
Absolutely not. It is a reproduction of a copyrighted work. You can NOT sell it, give it away, post it on the internet, or, distribute it in any way.


:thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

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Nov 11, 2011 15:24:42   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
Hi,

I am tickled when someone posts a copy of the cover of one of my books.

Regards,
Larry Leach

flyfishxprt wrote:
I was manning a booth next to an excellent oil painter at a show one time and noticed him tell 3 different photographers that they could not photograph his paintings. One did anyway, claiming that he could because it was a public place. The artist stood there for 10 minutes telling him why it was wrong and threatening to get him thrown out of the show or call the police and the guy finally deleted the images while the artist watched.

At first I thought the artist was rude but then after his explanation it made sense. The photographer could have easily made greeting cards or prints for sale or blown up a large image for someones wall, in essence "stealing" the copyrighted painting and undercutting the original artist any share.

Permission must legally be gotten from the artist of original art from any media before photographing for commercial use. But permissions should also be obtained even if photographed in a public place takes pictures of original art (or kids) for personal use. Once a painting, photograph or video is sold, it becomes the property of the sellee and the sellee needs to determine if it can be reproduced or not by the public.

You can't take magazine articles and associated images from a periodical and post them on your website without permission of the author/photographer/publisher.

I once noticed that a commercial website had, without permission, scanned photos from one of the books I published to decorate his website. He was not selling my book and neither did he give me credit. I wrote him a tactful letter but made it plain that he used my images unlawfully and needed to compensate me or the law would become involved........He paid.
I was manning a booth next to an excellent oil pai... (show quote)

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