joecichjr wrote:
I learn something whenever I'm here⭐
hear, hear!
I knew that a white or grey image would be fine but had not 'registered' the neutral bit.
Changing tack just a little: I often use the user set colour balance with my Canon camera - just take an image with large white or grey area and select that as white balance source.
But on a city coach tour it was obvious the glass of the coach was tinted a strange green colour from the first image I took. The option of using a grey card was a total non-starter and a few quick test pictures confirmed that none of the colour settings of the camera would work.
So I took a photo of the light grey tarmac road through the tinted window and used that as reference - worked a treat! Now the chance of the road being a true neutral18% grey was nil but it was near perfect for colour balance for the rest of the trip and only a few images needed balancing with the LR eye dropper tools.
So coming back to the meat of this post - neutral (or near enough) is the key
bsprague wrote:
Grey cards are a holdover from when meters, especially internal 35mm camera meters, were relatively new. They are colorless for the white balance and reflect 18 percent of the light. That is roughly equal to what is an average reflection for an average scene on an average day. Kodak made good ones that were pure white on the back side.
With films like Kodachrome it saved a lot of money to get the first shot right. With digital it is so easy to bracket and adjust WB in post that I don't carry a gray card any more.
Grey cards are a holdover from when meters, especi... (
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You can also use the palm of your hand for a pretty close approximation of a gray card.
We/I did that in my Zone System photography classes back in film days.
Ben, I'd suggest using a white card for WB. The gray card is better used as a general exposure guide. I have a few gray cards that are gray on one side and white on the other. Though, I rarely use them "in the field". I've used them mostly in laboratory work to assess a digital camera's capabilities to hand additional exposure.
--Bob
Rab-Eye wrote:
Although the manuals for every camera I have says to use something white for setting a custom white balance, I have also read/seen videos that say to use something white or a gray card. This makes no sense to me (they are not talking about using the grey card as a reference for setting WB in post). How can telling your camera that a grey card should be white result in correct WB? Are these sources simply wrong, or am I missing something?
Thanks!
bbrown5154 wrote:
You can also use the palm of your hand for a pretty close approximation of a gray card.
We/I did that in my Zone System photography classes back in film days.
Huge advantage: You always have the palm of your hand with you!!
I've heard some not-so-nice words when someone realized they forgot to put a grey card in the camera bag and now they're 3 hours driving from home...
bleirer wrote:
For white balance anything with equal r, g, and b will work. So middle grey might show up as 118, 118,118 if you hover over it, but light grey might be 211,211,211. The problem is grey cards for exposure might have a tint and not be true grey cards. One sold for white balance might be closer to neutral.
Its pricey but the color checker passport photo is tested for the grey patches they give to be reliably grey or white or whatever neutral. Adding to its cost is other standard color patches and the software it comes with to calibrate camera color, so I'm sure there must be lower cost cards if all you want it for is white balance.
The reason grey is used is white can get oversaturated especially if light is bright then you don't get reliable results.
For white balance anything with equal r, g, and b ... (
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Wow, Totally Confusing answer for me, maybe to Technical for me to Understand, I personally have never used a "Grey Card" in my Photography, as yet, I have considered one, but never thought I would really remember how or when or why to use a Grey Card, now at 70, who really cares that much, I would never notice a difference anyway.
I just purchased the large (8-1/2" X 11") X-Rite Custom White Balance Card. It's actually light gray in color.
Produced as a light gray target, the ColorChecker White Balance target creates a more spectrally neutral sample.
The light gray reference allows a lower light reflectance level to prevent over-saturating the camera sensor.
Gene51
Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
Rab-Eye wrote:
Although the manuals for every camera I have says to use something white for setting a custom white balance, I have also read/seen videos that say to use something white or a gray card. This makes no sense to me (they are not talking about using the grey card as a reference for setting WB in post). How can telling your camera that a grey card should be white result in correct WB? Are these sources simply wrong, or am I missing something?
Thanks!
For casual - not critical - white and color balance, a grey or white card will often be fine Either should provide a close enough balance between Red Green and Blue values - which would indicate no color cast. But for dead-on perfectly neutral color, the best tool I have found is the XRite ColorChecker Passport.
At the end of the day, I always end up picking something from the shot in post for my white balance until I see what I remember at the time of the shoot and what I wanted as a result. No camera ever captures what my eye sees. Cameras are more limited than the complex vision of humans. So I know going in that I will need to correct in post to match both my physical vision and my "Vision".
Of course, those who want straight from the camera might like using a card. And that is OK.
There are times I use a card. When I think it will give me a better starting point in post.
PHRubin wrote:
White balance is for tint, not exposure. Both white and gray are neutral in tint.
Good point, no one during film time could set there white balance, that was set by the film. What we were looking for was a neutral grey (not white which would of caused over exposure) for exposure. Two very different purposes and two very different things.
Rab-Eye wrote:
Although the manuals for every camera I have says to use something white for setting a custom white balance, I have also read/seen videos that say to use something white or a gray card. This makes no sense to me (they are not talking about using the grey card as a reference for setting WB in post). How can telling your camera that a grey card should be white result in correct WB? Are these sources simply wrong, or am I missing something?
Thanks!
Gray cards can be used for many purposes, including “quick and dirty” white balance, provided they are made with that goal in mind. I like the color I get from Delta-1 brand cards. I never liked the color I got from Kodak cards.
That said, a better approach is to use an ExpoDisc, which is a translucent lens cover used to diffuse light. (Google it).
Still better is to make a custom camera profile for each scene, using an X-Rite ColorChecker Passport.
Many other white balance tools are available. Most work well enough when used correctly. My favorite is the 24” One Shot Digital Calibration Target.
In the days of old I thought you could not take any decent pictures unless you went through all the WB stuff. WRONG, who cares as long as it looks good and you do not shoot commercials. IMHO
WJH
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