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Did Ansel Adams shoot in the RAW mode?
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Jan 2, 2021 21:34:49   #
kb6kgx Loc: Simi Valley, CA
 
via the lens wrote:
RAW is not an acronym, but is "a generic term indicating proprietary image file formats that contain unprocessed (or minimally processed) digital image at a originating from digital capturing devices." (The Manual of Photography). RAW files are not larger than JPEG files set to an equal setting, i.e., Large JPEG. And you are correct in that all of Ansel's negatives were highly processed.


I thought it might be an acronym because every time I see it in print, it is "RAW" and not "Raw". So, my second thought was correct, that it does refer to an "unprocessed" image.

As to the size of the image files, maybe I should check the menu settings, but it seem that a "Large JPEG" image may be 10-15 MB, whereas a RAW image could be twice that.

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Jan 2, 2021 21:36:26   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
kb6kgx wrote:
What I figured. Most of the time, I do like the JPEG image, and when it does need a little tweaking, usually -- USUALLY!!! -- using the "enhance" feature in my photo program is just enough to make the image "pop". But, sometimes… it makes the image worse. So, I can see how taking the RAW image and working with it could help.

Making a change to an existing JPEG is a dicey move. Because of the JPEG compression in the file any adjustment is guaranteed to cause some damage that you wouldn't get if you processed a raw file. Usually the damage is pretty minor and most folks are happier to have the adjustment.
kb6kgx wrote:
I would like to make my photos "pop", as I said, as others I know do with theirs, but I'm pretty sure that the guys I'm referring to don't shoot RAW and spend any time at all playing with the images afterwards. Something about their exposure techniques is what I'm thinking.

It can also be the software in the camera. Different cameras have more/less sophisticated and accessible JPEG processing software. Recent years have seen some pretty big advances in some makes/models versus others. Fuji has made a fair amount of noise with their built-in film simulations for their X camera line -- substantially more than you find from most DSLRs.

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Jan 2, 2021 21:56:00   #
via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP
 
kb6kgx wrote:
I thought it might be an acronym because every time I see it in print, it is "RAW" and not "Raw". So, my second thought was correct, that it does refer to an "unprocessed" image.

As to the size of the image files, maybe I should check the menu settings, but it seem that a "Large JPEG" image may be 10-15 MB, whereas a RAW image could be twice that.


CORRECTED: file dimensions are the same, data contained within the file is different, so a RAW file for my Z7 is 8256 x 5504 and a JPEG Fine file is 8256 x 5504, the RAW file contains 86,231,808 bytes (86.2MB) and the JPEG contains 15,783,104 bytes (15.8MB). Thus, there is more data to work with in the RAW file. Sorry for not being specific enough.

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Jan 2, 2021 22:00:25   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Charles 46277 wrote:
Wow, rcarol, what an idea!

I have a Hasselblad H2D (old) and bought a film back recently on eBay, over $400. Here is one that sold for over $1000:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEAR-MINT-3-Hasselblad-HM16-32-Film-Back-For-H-Series-Fujifilm-GX645-Japan-918-/164457214013

Three or four stops in each direction could get pricey...

A compromise that is practical is to shoot a roll for the lighting--on bright sunny days shoot for one contrast; for haze, another, and heavy overcast, another. Not as exact as individiual zone placements, but practical. Since 35mm film cameras are almost free, one could have several for different exposure values, one per camera.

Cut film in sheets makes the zone system work--and there are many medium format cameras that take sheet film holders for individual shots. This is indeed a valid reason to shoot film--in medium or large format.

My H2D has a quick button to increase or decrease exposure shot by shot (well, most cameras can do this one way or another), and with digital this does the job to some extent. But I only find it useful if the lighting is deceitful for a subject. (We know what to do on a sunny beach or sunny day with snow, strongly backlit subjects, etc.) The zone system with spot metering goes a bit farther than that. Controlling the light goes even farther.
Wow, rcarol, what an idea! br br I have a Hassel... (show quote)


Back in the early ‘80s when I was studying photography I had one class that was applying the zone system to 35mm. The idea was that by the end of the course you could take notes on each roll you shot and process that roll by adjusting the processing to either give you the best overall results or give you the very best results for the shots most important to you.

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Jan 2, 2021 22:40:49   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
kb6kgx wrote:
What I figured. Most of the time, I do like the JPEG image, and when it does need a little tweaking, usually -- USUALLY!!! -- using the "enhance" feature in my photo program is just enough to make the image "pop". But, sometimes… it makes the image worse. So, I can see how taking the RAW image and working with it could help.

I would like to make my photos "pop", as I said, as others I know do with theirs, but I'm pretty sure that the guys I'm referring to don't shoot RAW and spend any time at all playing with the images afterwards. Something about their exposure techniques is what I'm thinking.
What I figured. Most of the time, I do like the JP... (show quote)


I shoot JPEG and also use the auto enhancement feature in the program when needed. Adds just enough “pop” to the image.

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Jan 2, 2021 22:42:23   #
via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP
 
julian.gang wrote:
I don't think so, so for right now I'll stick with JPEG!...Julian


David Sheff interviewed Ansel Adams in March 1983 for a piece to be published in Playboy Magazine, this would be a year prior to Adam's death in April 1984. Adams was 81 at the time of the interview. The interviewer asked, "Almost as quickly as photography has developed as an art form, the technology at your disposal has changed. How has it changed the art of photography?"

Ansel answered, "One of the negatives effects today is the tendency to fall back on the automatic features of the camera. When you rely on the camera's automatic devices, you're always going to get an image, but the camera can't compose for you and it can't change the values for you. It just works on the basis of averaging. On the the other hand, with newer cameras, meters and film, one is much more in control of the exposure. The technology is treater, but the tendency is for people to think less. All you have to do now is aim and push a button. That's fine if all you're interested in doing is recording things."

Further on in the interview the interviewer asked, "What else do you see coming in photography?

Ansel answered, "There's no end in sight. Electronic photography will soon be superior to anything we now have....Then the time will come when you will be able to make the entire photograph electronically. With the extremely high resolution and the enormous control you can get from electronics, the results will be fantastic. I wish I were young again!"

So, I'd say, Ansel would have most certainly only shot in RAW format.

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Jan 2, 2021 23:26:06   #
cahale Loc: San Angelo, TX
 
julian.gang wrote:
I don't think so, so for right now I'll stick with JPEG!...Julian


I wonder what Mathew Brady used?

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Jan 3, 2021 00:53:04   #
David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
 
cahale wrote:
I wonder what Mathew Brady used?
Glass plates, I think.

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Jan 3, 2021 03:44:45   #
Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal
 
julian.gang wrote:
I don't think so, so for right now I'll stick with JPEG!...Julian


IIRC, shooting the kinds of landscapes je did, I'm pretty sure he was well dressed and covered.
;}

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Jan 3, 2021 04:33:29   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
cahale wrote:
I wonder what Mathew Brady used?


Brady learned the daguerreotype technique from Samuel Morse (of telegraphy fame) who introduced it to the US.

He started his career with a portrait studio in 1844. During his career he photographed 18 of the 19 men who served as President from #6 John Quincy Adams to #25 William McKinley. Though 6 of them were not yet President when he died. Most of them were photographed as officers in the Civil War or predominant public figures before his death in the early 1870's.

The vast majority of "His" Civil War photos were actually taken by one his total of (at one time or another) 23 assistants he equipped and paid to roam the nation and record the war while he mostly stayed in Washington DC and supervised the effort. Most of them worked the Union side but some were allowed to work on the Confederate side during the war. He actually got clearance from President Lincoln to do what we now call "embed" his photographers as long as he paid for it and didn't expect anything from the government or military other than access. During their time working on the project each man had a wagon built as a portable darkroom since the "wet" process they used demanded developing to take place in a very short time after preparation and exposure.

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Jan 3, 2021 04:43:23   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
David in Dallas wrote:
Glass plates, I think.


Daguerreotype was the technique he learned in the early 1840's from Samuel Morse.
During the war his portable wagon darkrooms used the "wet-plate collodion" system which produced negatives on glass.

His camera from his Washington DC studio was actually used to take a portrait of President Eisenhower in 1957 when Time Magazine borrowed it from the collection of Civil War artifacts and photographs owned by the Meserve family.

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Jan 3, 2021 06:28:21   #
paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah
 
Since raw is digital and when Adams shot there was no digital. Technically, the answer would be no, but knowing his methodology I would be inclined to say he would have used it, had it been available. Adams only shot in film since that was the only medium available to him but he had great vision of what he wanted so he did a lot of manipulation of the process.

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Jan 3, 2021 07:19:13   #
w00dy4012 Loc: Thalia, East Virginia
 
Merlin1300 wrote:
Someone once said - there is no dumb question.
We Might have an exception here - but certainly Not for me to say, as I've asked plenty of those.
-
The OP asked if Ansel took his photos in RAW mode.
The answer would be NO - because there was no such thing as digital photography during Ansel's time.
Although for arguments sake, one might opine that ALL his images were essentially in RAW mode with 100% uncompressed data down to the resolution of the silver emulsion on his negatives.
-
Do forgive if this point has been previously made - as I did NOT peruse all 25 pages of this thread.
Someone once said - there is no dumb question. br ... (show quote)


But, there are are dumb questioners.

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Jan 3, 2021 08:14:27   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Dumb topics too ....

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Jan 3, 2021 08:15:36   #
David Taylor
 
Dumb readers.

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