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Looking for mirrorless camera for experienced photographer.
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Nov 23, 2020 13:43:51   #
Canisdirus
 
Delderby wrote:
You are certainly an accomplished parrot - but I think you have been listening to the wrong people. Cellphones are fantastic communication devices - and have enabled a new visual dimension along with social media. However, they have not become serious photography tools - your arguments regarding sensor size comparisons certainly do not disappear when considering cellphones - they are multiplied. Yes - APS-C will - or has - happened in cellphone technology - but at twice the cost of a crop sensor camera. Their biggest advantage is portability - at which FF sucks. So we will still have M4/3 for great and compact photography.
Cellphone manufacturers have nowhere left to go with audio, and so are doing their best to enter the photography market - but their new products will not attract the multitude at which they are aimed - if only on price. The future of real photography? FF and M4/3.
You are certainly an accomplished parrot - but I t... (show quote)


I didn't say cellphones were better.
None the less...they have pushed micro out of the market place in a big way.
Ppl that may have purchased the small and better cameras decided ... meh... I'll just use my cellphone instead...and that's what the market indicates.
In business...you can do everything right...and still fail. Just the reality of the situation.
Micro has been squeezed from both ends.

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Nov 23, 2020 14:36:04   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
burkphoto wrote:
The physics of full frame design do not favor lightweight lenses. Over 110 m43 lenses are available. THAT is one big appeal of using Micro 4/3.

For Lumix, that appeal includes the evolution of excellent hybrid (stills plus video with great audio) designs.

True, even Panasonic Lumix is making full frame gear, in partnerships with Leica and Sigma. But they deliberately ignored APS-C in favor of full frame plus Micro 4/3, for the same reason Fujifilm makes both APS-C and medium format cameras.
The physics of full frame design do not favor ligh... (show quote)



Survival in this shrinking market will rely on innovation, marketing, and meeting the customer's wants and needs. One of the customer's wants and needs, after using small lightweight smartphones, is not going to big, heavy, and very costly cameras. Making lenses interchangeable for their basic functions between brands is innovation towards survival and meeting the customers wants and needs. And how many innovations were brought forth by Olympus and Panasonic that all the photography formats are now using. With JIP's marketing and money, and Olympus's innovation, hopefully the innovations will continue in OMDS. This is why I think Olympus, Panasonic, Leica, and Sigma will be here for the long term. In what portions, one can only guess. Only the future will tell.

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Nov 23, 2020 15:02:23   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Canisdirus wrote:
I didn't say cellphones were better.
None the less...they have pushed micro out of the market place in a big way.
Ppl that may have purchased the small and better cameras decided ... meh... I'll just use my cellphone instead...and that's what the market indicates.
In business...you can do everything right...and still fail. Just the reality of the situation.
Micro has been squeezed from both ends.


Many years ago, I worked for a company that at one time was the world's largest producer of semiconductor integrated circuits. Our logic circuits were "better" than those from other manufacturers in a number of ways. They functioned properly at higher frequencies, had wider tolerances for power supply voltages that weren't quite correct, had more resistance to damage from static discharge, and came with much better technical and application documentation. It turned out in the end that none of that mattered, at least to the masses of our customers. We were in a business that had developed into a commodity industry, and as long as the devices met the basic specifications, no one cared about the 'extras.' If customers designed to our specs, they couldn't confidently use parts from the other suppliers, so our extra capabilities didn't matter to them...they were not willing to get locked into our parts, even though they were also a little bit less expensive.

The lesson is that you can have the best product in the world, but if you don't truly understand what your customer needs and wants, it makes no difference. Right now, that's the case for a huge portion of the folks taking pictures. As I've written here before, if you are going to distinguish yourself, you must also make a convincing case telling why it matters. And that case has to go beyond your existing customer base. They already know.

Oh...the company? It is still around, but it is nowhere near the heavyweight leader that it used to be.

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Nov 23, 2020 15:09:03   #
Canisdirus
 
larryepage wrote:
Many years ago, I worked for a company that at one time was the world's largest producer of semiconductor integrated circuits. Our logic circuits were "better" than those from other manufacturers in a number of ways. They functioned proper at higher frequencies, had wider tolerances for power supply voltages that weren't quite correct, had more resistance to damage from static discharge, and came with much better technical and application documentation. It turned out in the end that none of that mattered, at least to the masses of our customers. We were in a business that had developed into a commodity industry, and as long as the devices met the basic specifications, no one caared about the 'extras.' If customers designed to our specs, they couldn't confidently use parts from the other suppliers, so our extra capabilities didn't matter to them...they were not willing to get locked into our parts, even though they were also a little bit less expensive.

The lesson is that you can have the best product in the world, but if you don't truly understand what your customer need and wants, it makes no difference. Right now, that's the case for a huge portion of the folks taking pictures. As I've written here before, if you are going to distinguish yourself, you must also make a convincing case telling why it matters. And that case has to go beyond your existing customer base. They already know.

Oh...the company? It is still around, but it is nowhere near the heavyweight leader that it used to be.
Many years ago, I worked for a company that at one... (show quote)


That's a good example.
There is nothing inherently wrong with micro as a concept. It is a great option for street photography...fast short lenses. This was the intent. It just did not work out marketwise. Something less came around but far more convenient...and won the day.

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Nov 23, 2020 16:01:26   #
Zooman 1
 
What/who are her main photography interest? I use Canons, so can't comment on other brands. I use the Canon M5 and M50 when weight is a prime factor. Also have the adapter for Canon EF lenses. If wildlife and nature are primary targets, the R6 is a great camera, but not much in weight savings.

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Nov 23, 2020 16:10:55   #
bdk Loc: Sanibel Fl.
 
You can rent the nikon z5 for $49.00 for a week and if you like it, apply the 49 to the price, look on a nikon page or ask a local nikon dealer.

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Nov 23, 2020 17:35:46   #
baron_silverton Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 
DMF wrote:
My wife is an experienced photographer currently using a Nikon 750. Looking for a mirrorless camera, weight has become very important, these typically do not go together any better than price. We do make large prints. While we have only owned Nikons, making the change to mirrorless makes changing manufacturer easier. All guidance and ideas will help my search. Thanks, Doug


If you make large prints and care about IQ then going to a smaller format will not serve you - yes it will be lighter but the IQ and noise will suffer noticably.

That said, the new Z system with its 1.8 primes are not heavy and the IQ is outstanding. If your wife uses a D750 now she will already by familiar with the Z system as the menus and operating it are virtually the same.

I used to shoot a D750 (a great camera) but have been using a Z6 for about a year and a half now and I would not go back.

Weight is not a concern for me, but as I said the Z camera with the 1.8 primes are somewhat smaller and lighter than a D750 with equivalent lenses. Also, she will be able to adapt whatever lenses she now has with the FTZ adaptor making it even easier to switch.

Also, the Z7 has a 45.7 MP BSI CMOS sensor equivalent to the D850 but in a body that is much smaller and lighter. This would be an outstanding choice for doing large prints and you would save on weight and size, as well as be able to use your old lenses.

Also, depending on what sort of photography she does, now that the Z7 II is coming out she can either get the new one if things like fast action tracking and Eye Detect AF are important to her, or if she is a landscape photographer for example, she could get the original Z7 and save some money.

If she is really into printing large and cares about the output and quality of her prints, she definitly should not get a camera with a smaller sensor- she will be disappointed with what she produces. The Z system is the best compromise between smaller and lighter but still having excellent IQ for large prints.

Hope this helps.
-B

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Nov 23, 2020 17:51:07   #
Peterfiore Loc: Where DR goes south
 
Let's talk about the numerical dimensions of prints, not just large. Large is a relative word. Large, to my mind, start at 18"x24"...How about you?

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Nov 23, 2020 18:58:23   #
drbart Loc: New York, NY
 
Hello, I have been using the Fujifilm X-T1 and X-T2 mirrorless cameras the past two years along with their Fujinon excellent lenses. A trip to Africa using mostly the 100-400mm F4.5-5.6 waterproof lens gave me excellent photo's!! Their new X-T4 camera having a new sensor and in-body stabilization system seems like I won't be able to resist; as their new X100V camera.
I have used all types of camera's in the past and find Fujifilm products very good!! Weight is less, but that long lens is still heavy, but worth it.
My point is to at least try their camera before you decide. Best of luck whichever way you go.
Last point is also to look at the Nikon Z6 or 7 mirrorless camera since you have used them all before.

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Nov 23, 2020 20:30:31   #
shutterbob Loc: Tucson
 
The z series will all be fairly easy to make the transition to from a D750. I shoot a 750 and have recently bought both a z50 (great aps-c body, and very small and lightweight), as well as a z5. The z5 is about the same size as my D7500. The only downside for me has been the lenses. Buying new mirrorless lenses is not cheap. Yeah, I know the ftz adaptor will work but I tried it and find it bulky and clumsy feeling. Take a serious look at the z50. It's rapidly becoming my favorite walk around camera, especially with the almost pancake like 16-50 lens.

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Nov 24, 2020 04:53:02   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
When M4/3 first lauched, my need was interchangeable lenses plus an EVF, but I also fell for the 4/3 native format (My love of the format has grown over the years). Now, 12 years on, those requirements are still my priority wants. However, I have added to those requirements - compactness - Panasonic again came to my aid - I moved from a 'G' SLR shape to retro rangefinder shape. My 20mpx GX8, with a collapsible power zoom 14x42 (2x crop) attached measures just 2 1/2 inches front to back. So comfortable against my body - and the EVF swivels up and down. I tend to smile at the cell phone photographers donning their spectacles and waving their phones at arms length to take a pic - often of themselves.
Fashions change - cell photography will settle down to attract mainly the selfie brigade. How many A/Ps wish to include themselves in all their pics?

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Nov 24, 2020 11:41:57   #
DMF
 
Not me!!!

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Nov 24, 2020 12:18:09   #
Canisdirus
 
Delderby wrote:
When M4/3 first lauched, my need was interchangeable lenses plus an EVF, but I also fell for the 4/3 native format (My love of the format has grown over the years). Now, 12 years on, those requirements are still my priority wants. However, I have added to those requirements - compactness - Panasonic again came to my aid - I moved from a 'G' SLR shape to retro rangefinder shape. My 20mpx GX8, with a collapsible power zoom 14x42 (2x crop) attached measures just 2 1/2 inches front to back. So comfortable against my body - and the EVF swivels up and down. I tend to smile at the cell phone photographers donning their spectacles and waving their phones at arms length to take a pic - often of themselves.
Fashions change - cell photography will settle down to attract mainly the selfie brigade. How many A/Ps wish to include themselves in all their pics?
When M4/3 first lauched, my need was interchangeab... (show quote)


Cellphone photography is not going to 'settle down'. It just keeps increasing as the tech pours into them.
Just two examples of an iPhone. They are the epitome of portability, and folks already carry them all the time. Full frame is the only real growing market because so far...cellphones can't touch them.





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Nov 24, 2020 13:28:32   #
DMF
 
Your suggesting 4/3 will eventually not be a significant step beyond cellphones. Indeed, at the rate the cell phone is moving staying with the full frame makes sense.

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Nov 24, 2020 13:41:45   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
DMF wrote:
Your suggesting 4/3 will eventually not be a significant step beyond cellphones. Indeed, at the rate the cell phone is moving staying with the full frame makes sense.


Cellphones work fine and well right up to the point that DR, fast action or high ISO matters.

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