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Key Words in Lightroom
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Oct 20, 2020 13:36:21   #
Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona
 
via the lens wrote:
I'm curious about this statement:

"Following Scott Kelby's sage advice I NEVER work in the Catalog File."

I'll have to admit up front that I am not a Scott Kelby fan but do admire his success of course. Why not work in a folder? (I think that's what you meant, folder rather than catalog file...I am unaware of anything called a "catalog file" other than the document that holds the catalog itself. You seemed adamant about this as it was in all CAPS.

Thanks.
I'm curious about this statement: br br "Fo... (show quote)


You are absolutely correct "folder" not "file" is correct. I apologize to all for my incorrect statement

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Oct 20, 2020 13:45:35   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
Curmudgeon wrote:
Please correct me where I am wrong: My Catalog File contains all files I have added to Lightroom. If I work with these original files any and all changes are permanent and change the original file, unless I change the file name.

Lightroom allows me to create a set called "Collections". Copies of files contained in the Catalog can be copied to the Collections Set where they can be edited without effecting the original file in the Catalog file.


Creating a collection does not copy anything, it is simply a grouping of the images within your catalog. You can have many collections within Lightroom, they are virtual, images can be within many collections at the same time. Editing an image within a collection changes the “original”.

Lightroom can have 1 catalog file open at any one time. It contains pointers to the images that have been imported, and what edits have been made to that image. If you close the catalog, there are no images to edit.

Are you using Lightroom Classic or Lightroom CC? Classic is the desktop version, CC is the cloud or mobile version.

Not sure why you have to change the file name...when I edit a shot in Lightroom, I make my edits then if completed, move on the next image...changes are saved instantly to the catalog and the xmp info for that image.

There is no save or save as needed.

If I call Photoshop or another plugin for a tweak, Lightroom creates a copy (Tiff or Psd) and passes that image to the plugin, on return, Lightroom displays the plugin edited image stacked with the original.

Re-reading your post, it may be you are creating a folder called “collection”, which is different from a collection in Lightroom. If you create a folder of any name, then copy images to it you would be correct that changes would not affect the original, but now you have multiple copies of your image to deal with.

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Oct 20, 2020 13:53:35   #
chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I just watched a video about key words by Ben Wilmore. He certainly makes a no-brainer case for using them, but I don't do much with them.

Every now and then, I go back and work on key words in LR. I get the idea behind them, but it seems like a huge time killer. I think one of my problems is having too many words. I could probably apply a dozen ones to some images.

Comments welcome.


Me, too. I have so many images the task to update isn't just daunting, it just ain't gonna happen. Now, if I started now... ;0)

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Oct 20, 2020 14:02:02   #
via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP
 
Curmudgeon wrote:
Please correct me where I am wrong: My Catalog File contains all files I have added to Lightroom. If I work with these original files any and all changes are permanent and change the original file, unless I change the file name.

Lightroom allows me to create a set called "Collections". Copies of files contained in the Catalog can be copied to the Collections Set where they can be edited without effecting the original file in the Catalog file.


To start, Yes, your catalog file is the folder that holds your catalog and its edits and metadata, but not your photos. Your photos are kept elsewhere, wherever you have instructed the software to put them. When you work in LrC all of the work, the edits or metadata - whichever you want to call it - are stored in the Catalog file/folder. At no time do any of the edits ever change the original image, they are simply layered over the top - like a cake with frosting. The only time the edits change the original file is when you export in some fashion, then the edits are "baked" in. A Collection does not hold "copies" of any image, it simply "collects" the chosen image previews, in what is really a folder type situation but called a Collection. Any Collection can be part of a Collection Set, as specified by you. For example, I have a Collection Set for images sent to competitions, for saved printed images, for slide shows, for books. No Collection or Collection Set holds actual images, just the data for the image and a preview and this way there is no copying of images that might take up more hard drive space. Changing a file name does not impact the metadata on the file in any way except to change the file name. You might benefit from reading the LrC Help manual found online at the Adobe website. Read, in particular, anything to do with the Library Module, which is the heart and brain of the software, it is where everything is managed.

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Oct 20, 2020 14:03:49   #
chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
via the lens wrote:
Why use a nested system? Because this allows you to have a very short list to choose from at any given time and prevents having to scroll down, while seeking a specific word, a long list of keywords. A nested system also allows you to quickly, within seconds, find a specific subject image, such as birds, or a family member. This also saves time. I like to work quick and easy so I try to stay organized. Keywords are also very easy to alter by choosing the keyword and then using the right click, so you fix errors quickly and easily. I do not keyword upon import unless every single image is the same subject, then I would keyword at import. I generally keyword at some point after I've imported the images and played with them to process (I shoot RAW). There are many ways to keyword, I think I counted seven in all but there could be more. I cannot include text from the Nikonian article that I wrote as they now own it or I would. If you have been key wording and want to find the images that do not contain a keyword you can do that in the included Smart Collection that is standard in LrC. It's easy to keyword, for me, in the morning with a cup of coffee in hand and it goes very quickly. Your keyword list must match what you shoot in general and should be designed to grow as needed. Again, doing this on paper first is the best approach. Keywording can save countless minutes/hours of time when you are working on a special project or looking for images for a competition or to sell. I've included a few screenshots to clarify.
Why use a nested system? Because this allows you ... (show quote)


I'm doing this, too, but not in the LR catalogue; I have catagories on the hard drive I output to. <shrug> My little "system" works for me...kinda. It's complicated. ;0)

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Oct 20, 2020 14:05:55   #
berchman Loc: South Central PA
 
via the lens wrote:
That may be, but as I stated, each person must determine what keywording system works for them and the way their brain thinks. Also, images can have multiple keywords as determined by the user. For example, I could put a keyword on an image for both nature and landscape and that way I don't miss an image. In my mind for my key wording system "nature" means that intimate close up shot and "landscape" means that wider, more inclusive shot and that works well for me, but maybe not for you. You would need to determine what works for you personally. While you may not feel inclined to use a keyword system thousands of people do this and find it useful. I'm not sure why you are reading this particular thread if you don't want to learn more about key wording. I've found it incredibly useful and a great time saver to find images for all kinds of reasons. Good luck with your image organization.
That may be, but as I stated, each person must det... (show quote)


I never said that I don't use keywords; I do, but when I have imported standard nesting schemes, I have not found them useful; indeed, I have some of them absurdly OCD.

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Oct 20, 2020 14:08:43   #
via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP
 
chasgroh wrote:
I'm doing this, too, but not in the LR catalogue; I have catagories on the hard drive I output to. <shrug> My little "system" works for me...kinda. It's complicated. ;0)


Whatever works for you is good!

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Oct 20, 2020 14:09:34   #
via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP
 
berchman wrote:
I never said that I don't use keywords; I do, but when I have imported standard nesting schemes, I have not found them useful; indeed, I have some of them absurdly OCD.


OK. Sometimes OCD is good and sometimes not so much! Whatever works for you is great.

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Oct 20, 2020 14:22:17   #
frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.
 
Curmudgeon wrote:
Please correct me where I am wrong: My Catalog File contains all files I have added to Lightroom. If I work with these original files any and all changes are permanent and change the original file, unless I change the file name.

Lightroom allows me to create a set called "Collections". Copies of files contained in the Catalog can be copied to the Collections Set where they can be edited without effecting the original file in the Catalog file.



Lightroom is just a database with a bunch of pointers. It does not import your original photos. It just has a database that points to it on your hard drive. When you edit the photos again, this goes into lightroom's database the original photo is unchanged. If you go to your browser and go look at that photo outside of Lightroom it's untouched. Collections again, are just pointers back to the original catalog file in Lightroom. Any change you make to that photo in Lightroom can be done from The collection or the original and it will show up anywhere that photo appears in Lightroom. A photo can be in several collections anywhere you change it it will appear in all of them. I hope this clears things up a little bit a lot of people get confused but your original files are never repeat never changed.

I hope this makes sense, sometimes I have a hard time explaining things but the point is you're original file is never changed.

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Oct 20, 2020 14:32:24   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
frankraney wrote:
Lightroom is just a database with a bunch of pointers. It does not import your original photos. It just has a database that points to it on your hard drive. When you edit the photos again, this goes into lightroom's database the original photo is unchanged. If you go to your browser and go look at that photo outside of Lightroom it's untouched. Collections again, are just pointers back to the original catalog file in Lightroom. Any change you make to that photo in Lightroom can be done from The collection or the original and it will show up anywhere that photo appears in Lightroom. A photo can be in several collections anywhere you change it it will appear in all of them. I hope this clears things up a little bit a lot of people get confused but your original files are never repeat never changed.

I hope this makes sense, sometimes I have a hard time explaining things but the point is you're original file is never changed.
Lightroom is just a database with a bunch of point... (show quote)



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Oct 20, 2020 14:53:25   #
via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP
 
I like to say that LrC is a multifaceted, multifunctional software application that contains a database. After all, it is more than just a simple database, as the application contains seven modules that result in different products or uses. Yes, a database is certainly part of the application, but it is so much more than just that...just my take on the software.

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Oct 20, 2020 15:43:24   #
Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona
 
This is a repost of my original. Amazing how misusing two words can change the whole meaning. I even screwed this one up, please click on "See Quote" to see the new edits

Curmudgeon wrote:
I only have about 5,000 photos to manage.

I use all the tools for data base management that LR Classic provides. When I download from camera, LR creates a file on my system drive by download date. When I get over the lazyies (not a real word) I cull, key word, adjust white balance and and assign to a Collection. Following Scott Kelby's sage advice I ALWAYS work in the Catalog File never work in the Folders Panel. Key words are added as Birds>Mockingbirds and Thrashers>Curve-billed Thrasher, if I take the file to Topaz Studio 2 I may add something like >Abstract to the key word list.

Probably not a reasonable procedure for everyone but it works for me.
I only have about 5,000 photos to manage. br br I... (show quote)

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Oct 20, 2020 15:58:01   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
Curmudgeon wrote:
This is a repost of my original. Amazing how misusing two words can change the whole meaning. I even screwed this one up, please click on "See Quote" to see the new edits


I would love to read what Scott said - it seems odd, but maybe there is more to what he is saying.

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Oct 20, 2020 15:59:50   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
chasgroh wrote:
Me, too. I have so many images the task to update isn't just daunting, it just ain't gonna happen. Now, if I started now... ;0)


I felt the same way... until I sat down one evening and started... creating nested keywords cut loads of time off the task and soon all my images were properly key worded to my satisfaction.

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Oct 20, 2020 16:02:37   #
via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP
 
Dngallagher wrote:
I would love to read what Scott said - it seems odd, but maybe there is more to what he is saying.


I do know that Scott Kelby is a big fan of using collections and never using folders, although I could not understand this as it seemed much too complicated for me. I always try to work fast and efficient without duplication as much as possible. I also try to keep my LrC catalog neat and tidy so as to avoid any problems that cause me hours of senseless time being used up. It could be that the poster was/is a bit confused about what Kelby recommended.

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