David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA

What is more troubling, I think, is that so few of our Legislators have served. At one time a majority of them were veterans--now, very few. That has consequences, not only regarding veterans' affairs, but on the general attitudes about society.

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

Totally agree with this.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

I agree. While watching a documentary on the Windsors last night, I was reminded how in England, it’s traditional for the Monarchy to serve.

PhotogHobbyist Loc: Bradford, PA

I think the laws of this land would be much better and the government would work more smoothly if more of the elected were veterans.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

I like the idea Heinlein put forth in "Starship Troopers". Everyone is a citizen with rights but only those who serve are qualified to vote or run for election and hold certain jobs. In the book they also had ways to serve other than military for the handicapped or conscientious objectors. And they had a required class in all high schools on patriotism, service etc taught by a service veteran.
The main character was the son of a multi-millionaire businessman who had never served and could not understand why his son wanted to. At the end of the book the son greets a new head NCO for his unit and, it is his father. The father had changed his mind, turned the business over to family members, signed up and attended the NCO academy then requested assignment to the unit his son now commanded.

David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA

I am a big fan of RAH and "Starship Troopers" is one of my favorite books. I have read it many times. They made a movie out of it, which was a pretty bad realization (not uncommon--very vew Heinlein books have been made into movies and none were very true transfers). The concept of citizenship certainly sounds workable, but it would not comport with our Constitution--there would have to be significant Amending to make it possible and there is no chance those would be ratified.

Off point: although I thought "Starship Troopers" was not a particularly good movie (as a product of RAH), it does have the top rating in my "Muzzle Flash Movie Rating" scale--there are 1750 muzzle flashes in it.

RAH had some very interesting, if strange, ideas that are put forth in his books. Check out his economics discourse in "Beyond This Horizon" and his concepts of marriage in several ("The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" and "Stranger In A Strange Land" come to mind). His works following SIASL went even farther off normal.

Returning to the Topic (apologize for the derail), I think the most practical way to salvage the current situation is to restore the teaching of American History and Civics, going back to the texts that were used 50 or more years ago as guides and updating them. It is essential that our complete History, from the early colonization (Pilgrims and Puritans, Jamestown), founding of the nation (Tea Party, Declaration, Constitution, Virginia Compromise), the wars (Revolution, 1812, Mexican-American, "Civil", WWI & II, and those more recent), the expansions (Louisiana Purchase, Gadsden Purchase, Alaska). So much "History" being taught today doesn't go back more than 100 years (if that far) and is more like enhanced Current Events--it does not convey the real development of our nation's culture and mores. We must denounce the ideas currently being flouted that we were founded as a Slave Nation. I don't think the Puritans had any slaves.

14kphotog Loc: Marietta, Ohio

I for one am so glad to be allowed to salute the flag in civvies. Anyone from the 1960s 70s who served can understand.

raferrelljr Loc: CHARLOTTE, NC

And I get burned by pieces of shit in Portland, fight back and kill these assholes!

BamaTexan Loc: Deep in the heart of Texas

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

I think I read everything Heinlein ever wrote, including some things under pen names. And yes, that movie sucked. I had two friends who had a used book/collectible book store across the street from the Supermarket where I worked during college and my first few years teaching. They took turns going around the country by train with a couple of large steamer trunks, lists of books people wanted and places to look for them and often books they had promised to other dealers or collectors along the way. Each made that circuit twice a year. Heinlein was one of their customers, he didn't come in person, he would talk to them by phone or send them a letter of what he was looking for and a relative (uncle I think) would pickup at their shop in Huntington Park, CA when they got it. They also had people at the major Hollywood Studios-esp animation people-who were customers. The animators were usually after comic books for reference or collecting. They did so much comic and magazine business they had a part time employee who did nothing but that for them on the second floor above the shop. They used to let me read some very valuable collectibles in the shop and I got a few damaged ones from them that otherwise I would have never been able to afford. They did a huge business in old Nat Geos, mostly with schools and teachers. And for young students without money they would rent editions to them for research to do reports. They had dealt in every edition of Nat Geo ever published except one from the first year. Once when they had at least one of all the other editions (early 70's) I got to browse the shelves on their second floor. A fair size room floor to ceiling shelves sized for Nat Geo on all walls and shelves, racks in the middle with at least one of every Nat Geo but that one.

Back to history, civics and government. The text books were getting so bad, revised history or full of mistakes that every time the school changed text books I would get a copy before we issued them and comb through them making notes of mistakes and changes to add to my lesson plans - I would tell the students - the book is wrong, this is the correct info, but on the standardized tests answer according to the book or they will mark you wrong - But, this is the correct info. Some of the other teachers, esp young ones were shocked, some of them didn't even notice mistakes or revisions in the books. Some of them didn't even know the vocabulary. Once while I was supervising passing period in the hall and talking with the lady in the next room our rather young newly elected Department Chair (really nice young lady who got elected on personality) came up to us and asked "What is a poll tax?". And she was Latina with a minor in the Civil Rights Movement.

As to the whole slave thing. Most of today's people don't know how widespread and how long slavery has been around they think the 1619 Project is correct. They don't know that almost all of those slaves were sold to the slave traders by other Africans, they don't know that Africans often made slaves out of stranded European sailors or that the world's biggest slave traders were Muslim Arabs or Muslim Blacks selling slaves to the Mediterranean and Middle East areas. They don't know slavery was illegal in the British Empire and the American Colonies until a couple of decades after 1619. Those first Africans traded to the Jamestown colonists in exchange for repairs and supplies for a slave ship were made indentured servants with the same contract as indentured servants from poor areas of Britain and after they worked off their contract several of them became rich slave owners themselves. etc etc I have to go, chore list to do.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

I grok that - grew up on Heinlein - “The Rolling Stones” was the first SF book I ever read.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

I understand that non-scifi types are pushing for the inclusion of "grok" in everyday language.
I do know it is now in some dictionaries as a serious word. Not just a reference to Heinlein, SciFi and "Stranger In A Strange Land".

David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA

The other 2 Heinlein books that were made into movies were "Rocket Ship Galileo" (the framework for "Destination Moon", for which he was the technical advisor) and "The Puppet Masters" (which tried to follow the book, but left out a significant part of the heroine's early life).

I think the first Heinlein I read was "Rocket Ship Galileo", then "Space Cadet". My actual favorites are "Starman Jones", "The Star Beast", and "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress". Also very fond of "The Door Into Summer".

Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

Hatred??? Wow... Where did I express hatred? I am a naturalized US citizen, and hardly 'hate' this country. I was just pointing out that the claim of "I was at every battle of every war" is not correct. I never claimed that British forces were present at any of the battles you list above. The claim of omnipresence was yours, and as stated, it was not correct.

Your statement that you preferred to stay put of our conflicts belies the claim.

I could also point out that Britain went to war with Hitler because he invaded one of our Allies. The US and UK are supposed to have a "special relationship", but the US did not enter the war until attacked itself...

This is not a political issue, so I see no reason why it would be moved to the attic. I merely pointed out an inconsistency in your original post. You chose to attack. Does this site not allow free speech? I meant no offense to anyone.

I was present at 2 of the battles I listed, and wounded in one of them. The claim that your flag was at every battle is demeaning to the friends and comrades that I lost at those events.

fantom Loc: Colorado