F-stop ring on manual lens used on DSLR (Page 2): In this case you definitely have to set the aperture via the aperture ring and not on the camera. You may have also to activate the...

BebuLamar

graybeard wrote:

I have a Canon 77D with an adapter ring allowing M43 screw mount lenses to couple and "communicate" with the camera. Whatever balance is needed between the lens' aperture ring and cameras' aperture setting seems to be the root of the problem. That and my diminishing gray matter.

In this case you definitely have to set the aperture via the aperture ring and not on the camera. You may have also to activate the stop down level on the lens to stop the lens down to the aperture set. I am not sure the meter would work right or not. Perhaps CHG_CANON can help.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Using a vintage, manual focus/manual aperture lens adapted on a Canon EOS DSLR, you won't have any means of controlling the aperture via the camera's controls. You will have to set it using the lens' aperture ring. And, when you stop down you will see your viewfinder dim down, too. This is because there's no mechanical or electronic control over the aperture, maintaining it open until the moment of exposure (in the manner it would be if you were using it on an old Mamiya SLR).

The "chip", if the adapter has one, only provides limited assistance. Some of those chips are "programmable" so that the image EXIF will tell you what lens was used to make the image.... with a notation such as "50mm f/1.4". Usually this type chipped adapter comes with instructions. The EXIF doesn't reflect the actual aperture being used because it simply doesn't "know". There's no communication between the lens and the camera.

Perhaps the most useful thing the "chip" does is allow the camera's Focus Confirmation to work. To use it, you'll need to set the camera to One Shot focus mode while you still have an autofocus lens on the camera. Also select the AF point you want to work (might work with Zone or Small Zone, too... give it a try, I never have). The result is that Focus Confirmation will light up the LED when focus is achieved, which can be very helpful since it's difficult to focus visually since modern cameras, designed for autofocus lenses, don't have any of the manual focus assist features found in vintage cameras. If you have the Focus Confirmation "beep" enabled, it should work, too.

You can use the camera's Manual Exposure mode (M) and set the shutter speed, ISO and aperture (on the lens) using the camera's built in light meter. (With "match needle" technique.)

You also can use Aperture Priority Auto Exposure mode (Av)... set the ISO, select the aperture (on the lens) and let the camera select the shutter speed.

You probably can also use M with Auto ISO (which is actually another Auto Exposure mode). Here you set both the aperture (on the lens) and the shutter speed (on the camera), letting the camera choose the ISO.

DO NOT use Program AE (P) or Shutter Priority AE (Tv). Also do not use any of the "scene" modes (sports, landscape, portrait, etc.) and don't use full "Auto" or "CA" (Creative Auto). You simply cannot use any mode that requires the camera to set the aperture, which all of this will want to do.

There is a good article about adapting a variety of vintage lenses for use on Canon DSLRs here: http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/eosfaq/manual_focus_EOS.html There are many different mounts that can be accommodated on the newer cameras, with the limitations noted above. The only caveat is, try to avoid the adapters that have to use "corrective" optics... as noted in the page above. The cheap optics in those adapters typically spoil the image quality of the lens, making it hardly worthwhile. In some cases, it's possible to remove the optics to maintain high image quality, but the lens will no longer be able to focus all the way to infinity (not a problem with some lenses.... but a deal killer with others). The same and even more vintage lenses can be adapted for use on the Canon M-series (APS-C) and R-series (full frame) mirrorless cameras.

On your 77D, with APS-C size sensor, that 55mm lens will "act like" a short telephoto lens. It will be very nice for portraiture, among other things.

AFAIK, none of the Mamiya M42 mount lenses used a stop-down lever (which was common on some early Pentax M42 lenses), so you probably simply set the f-stop on lens and it will actually close the aperture down when you do so. If you are using a small aperture (f/11, f/16) it will make your viewfinder very dim and difficult to use. Focus Confirmation may not get enough light to work, either. Try using the LCD on the rear of the camera in Live View and see if your camera has an "Exposure Preview", which can brighten up the image enough on that small screen to see to focus. It might also be possible to "zoom in" or magnify that preview, to more closely check manual focus. See your camera manual. These make working with an adapted vintage lens slower, but that may not be any problem for a lot of types of photography.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

These two pictures of a Mamiya/Sekor 55mm f1.4 lens (which I used eBay to find) show some things to be aware of with this lens.

The top image, if you look carefully at the right hand side, there is an engraving on the lens that looks like M <--> A, and a slider switch near it that can choose either the M side or the A side. M stands for Manual and that is what you need to use. A stands for Auto, and this is NOT what you need to use. What Auto is referring to is what happens when the pin on the back of the lens, refer to 2nd image, is pushed in. If you were using an old time camera, it had the means to push that lever in when you pressed the shutter button. And in doing so, it would cause the lens, which was sitting "wide open" to stop down to the setting on the aperture ring. For instance, in Auto Mode, you want to focus (manually of course) with the lens wide open so you could see what you were doing, but you might need to have it stopped down when you actually took the picture. The camera provided that capability by pushing in that pin you see on the back, and the lens stopped down. YOUR LENS ADAPTER DOES NOT SUPPORT THIS MODE OF OPERATION!

When you slide the switch to the M side, it goes to Manual Mode. In this mode, the push pin on the back of the lens no longer does anything. And instead, whatever you set on the Aperture Ring immediately happens. If you set f8, you are at f8 and you have to focus at f8 which can be challenging. THIS IS THE MODE YOU WILL NEED TO USE.

One trick you can do is to rotate the aperture ring to f1.4 for focusing, and then to the f-stop setting you really want to use before pressing the shutter button. Also, so that you don't have to take your eye off the subject, count how many clicks you need to go through to get to the f-stop value you want to use. But with the Canon you have, you will most likely need to use live view on the LCD for focusing since it will be harder to do so with the view finder, especially when stopped down, so maybe you will only be watching the LCD when shooting, so perhaps counting clicks is not as important. But with a mirrorless camera where you can use the EVF for focusing, including focus magnifier, the viewfinder is the most natural way to focus the camera, and is how I do it. In fact, what I often do is set the camera to manual mode (not aperture priority) and then manually set the shutter speed I wish to use. And while watching through the EVF, I just stop down until the image looks just the way I want it, and then I take the shot. Works great with mirrorless. But I don't think it works as well with DSLR's.

Its been a really long time since I used a m42 camera that was equipped to push down that aperture button. And I once had a Mamiya/Sekor camera and a 55mm f1.4 lens, but its long gone.

Have fun. When used correctly, it is not difficult to manually focus and get properly exposed images.

(Download)

blackest Loc: Ireland

It kinda depends on the adapter, it probably reports a max aperture. Eg f1.4 set the camera in aperture priority mode adjust the focus and then stop down to what you want but don't tell the camera this just let it think that the camera lens is wide open at the e.g f1.4 now it will base the exposure on the available light which depends on where you have the aperture set.

Focus at wide open this minimises the depth of field and helps the camera see the maximum contrast where you are focusing.
Why you set the maximum aperture reported by the adapter is that the camera expects the aperture to close down which it won't so say it reads the exposure and calculates say 1/200th of a second if you are telling it you are using f2.8 it says 1/200 wide open so 1/50 stopped down 2 stops. The result an over exposure by 2 stops.

In manual mode you can just work out the values yourself and set an aperture shutter speed and iso then its all your fault. Even then you can take a test shot look at the histogram if its too far left then you need a longer shutter speed to far right a slower shutter speed. Aperture priority is easiest.

tropics68 Loc: Georgia

JimH123 wrote:

These two pictures of a Mamiya/Sekor 55mm f1.4 lens (which I used eBay to find) show some things to be aware of with this lens.

The top image, if you look carefully at the right hand side, there is an engraving on the lens that looks like M <--> A, and a slider switch near it that can choose either the M side or the A side. M stands for Manual and that is what you need to use. A stands for Auto, and this is NOT what you need to use. What Auto is referring to is what happens when the pin on the back of the lens, refer to 2nd image, is pushed in. If you were using an old time camera, it had the means to push that lever in when you pressed the shutter button. And in doing so, it would cause the lens, which was sitting "wide open" to stop down to the setting on the aperture ring. For instance, in Auto Mode, you want to focus (manually of course) with the lens wide open so you could see what you were doing, but you might need to have it stopped down when you actually took the picture. The camera provided that capability by pushing in that pin you see on the back, and the lens stopped down. YOUR LENS ADAPTER DOES NOT SUPPORT THIS MODE OF OPERATION!

When you slide the switch to the M side, it goes to Manual Mode. In this mode, the push pin on the back of the lens no longer does anything. And instead, whatever you set on the Aperture Ring immediately happens. If you set f8, you are at f8 and you have to focus at f8 which can be challenging. THIS IS THE MODE YOU WILL NEED TO USE.

One trick you can do is to rotate the aperture ring to f1.4 for focusing, and then to the f-stop setting you really want to use before pressing the shutter button. Also, so that you don't have to take your eye off the subject, count how many clicks you need to go through to get to the f-stop value you want to use. But with the Canon you have, you will most likely need to use live view on the LCD for focusing since it will be harder to do so with the view finder, especially when stopped down, so maybe you will only be watching the LCD when shooting, so perhaps counting clicks is not as important. But with a mirrorless camera where you can use the EVF for focusing, including focus magnifier, the viewfinder is the most natural way to focus the camera, and is how I do it. In fact, what I often do is set the camera to manual mode (not aperture priority) and then manually set the shutter speed I wish to use. And while watching through the EVF, I just stop down until the image looks just the way I want it, and then I take the shot. Works great with mirrorless. But I don't think it works as well with DSLR's.

Its been a really long time since I used a m42 camera that was equipped to push down that aperture button. And I once had a Mamiya/Sekor camera and a 55mm f1.4 lens, but its long gone.

Have fun. When used correctly, it is not difficult to manually focus and get properly exposed images.

These two pictures of a Mamiya/Sekor 55mm f1.4 len... (show quote)

Great tip.

I do that quite frequently since I am not super steady anymore and I prefer fast shutter speeds. It does seem only to work on mirrorless though. When I tried it on my Pentax k-70 with a manual only Pentax M film lens (no adapters and no contacts to the camera) it did not not work either in the viewfinder or the camera's internal exposure meter.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

JimH123 wrote:

These two pictures of a Mamiya/Sekor 55mm f1.4 lens (which I used eBay to find) show some things to be aware of with this lens.

The top image, if you look carefully at the right hand side, there is an engraving on the lens that looks like M <--> A, and a slider switch near it that can choose either the M side or the A side. M stands for Manual and that is what you need to use. A stands for Auto, and this is NOT what you need to use. What Auto is referring to is what happens when the pin on the back of the lens, refer to 2nd image, is pushed in. If you were using an old time camera, it had the means to push that lever in when you pressed the shutter button. And in doing so, it would cause the lens, which was sitting "wide open" to stop down to the setting on the aperture ring. For instance, in Auto Mode, you want to focus (manually of course) with the lens wide open so you could see what you were doing, but you might need to have it stopped down when you actually took the picture. The camera provided that capability by pushing in that pin you see on the back, and the lens stopped down. YOUR LENS ADAPTER DOES NOT SUPPORT THIS MODE OF OPERATION!

When you slide the switch to the M side, it goes to Manual Mode. In this mode, the push pin on the back of the lens no longer does anything. And instead, whatever you set on the Aperture Ring immediately happens. If you set f8, you are at f8 and you have to focus at f8 which can be challenging. THIS IS THE MODE YOU WILL NEED TO USE.

One trick you can do is to rotate the aperture ring to f1.4 for focusing, and then to the f-stop setting you really want to use before pressing the shutter button. Also, so that you don't have to take your eye off the subject, count how many clicks you need to go through to get to the f-stop value you want to use. But with the Canon you have, you will most likely need to use live view on the LCD for focusing since it will be harder to do so with the view finder, especially when stopped down, so maybe you will only be watching the LCD when shooting, so perhaps counting clicks is not as important. But with a mirrorless camera where you can use the EVF for focusing, including focus magnifier, the viewfinder is the most natural way to focus the camera, and is how I do it. In fact, what I often do is set the camera to manual mode (not aperture priority) and then manually set the shutter speed I wish to use. And while watching through the EVF, I just stop down until the image looks just the way I want it, and then I take the shot. Works great with mirrorless. But I don't think it works as well with DSLR's.

Its been a really long time since I used a m42 camera that was equipped to push down that aperture button. And I once had a Mamiya/Sekor camera and a 55mm f1.4 lens, but its long gone.

Have fun. When used correctly, it is not difficult to manually focus and get properly exposed images.

These two pictures of a Mamiya/Sekor 55mm f1.4 len... (show quote)

The lens shown in the images above is an early version that used the A-M lever (or slider) aperture control. Notice the chrome aperture control rings on that lens.

See below. There are at least two more, later versions of Mamiya/Sekor 55mm f/1.4 that were made and can be widely found used. Neither has the M-A lever.

Notice both these later versions have all black barrel and aperture control rings. (Images courtesy mamiya-nc-m42.mflenses.com website.)

http://mamiya-nc-m42.mflenses.com/m42_mamiya_55_1.4.htm

http://mamiya-nc-m42.mflenses.com/m42_mamiya_sx_55_1.4.htm

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

amfoto1 wrote:

The lens shown in the images above is an early version that used the A-M lever (or slider) aperture control. Notice the chrome aperture control rings on that lens.

See below. There are at least two more, later versions of Mamiya/Sekor 55mm f/1.4 that were made and can be widely found used. Neither has the M-A lever.

Notice both these later versions have all black barrel and aperture control rings. (Images courtesy mamiya-nc-m42.mflenses.com website.)

Well, I never knew that there were versions that removed the M-A slider switch. I remember the one I once had did have the slider switch which I bought new in 1969.

I guess for adapted lens use, the aperture plunger on the lens needs to be taped down making it a manual lens again.

blackest Loc: Ireland

JimH123 wrote:

Well, I never knew that there were versions that removed the M-A slider switch. I remember the one I once had did have the slider switch which I bought new in 1969.

I guess for adapted lens use, the aperture plunger on the lens needs to be taped down making it a manual lens again.

On the Canon adapters there is usually an internal lip and when you screw down the lens the lip pushes in the pin, alternatively if you careful you can remove the back plate and access the pin a little bit of a biro refill will slip over the pin and when you put it back together it holds the pin in.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

blackest wrote:

On the Canon adapters there is usually an internal lip and when you screw down the lens the lip pushes in the pin, alternatively if you careful you can remove the back plate and access the pin a little bit of a biro refill will slip over the pin and when you put it back together it holds the pin in.

I have several m42 adapters. I will look at whether they hold the pin down.

I also have perhaps 15 m42 lenses to play with. And think that every one of them has the M-A slide switch.

They are just so easy to use on a mirrorless camera. And I have both Sony and Olympus cameras.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

JimH123 wrote:

I have several m42 adapters. I will look at whether they hold the pin down.

I also have perhaps 15 m42 lenses to play with. And think that every one of them has the M-A slide switch.

They are just so easy to use on a mirrorless camera. And I have both Sony and Olympus cameras.

Update: Just checked.

I have 3 different m42 adapters. And two of the 3 do not press the aperture pin in, and 1 does.

FOTGA -- M42 -> NEX : pin is not pushed in

K&F Concept -- M42 to m4/3 : pin is pushed in

And another I have for Sony A-Mount is a single piece of metal designed to be as thin as possible, but does not have a manuf's name anywhere -- and it does not press the pin in. I have lots of these adapters and they sell on eBay for under $2 each. Have used them for years, but now I have sold my A-Mount cameras.

User ID

Some m42 adapters have the Pin Depressor Flange and some do not.

I use both types. Those WITH the flange will handle all m42 lenses in the normally expected manner, whether or not the lens has an A-M switch. It won’t matter which way the switch is set.

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There is only one good reason to prefer m42 adapters LACKING the flange. For those m42 lenses having a sturdy and convenient A-M switch you can enjoy the A-M switch as a Focus-Shoot switch. “A” opens the iris for accurate focus and “M” closes the iris to whatever stop you’ve set on the aperture control ring, to shoot at the desired f/stop.

Seems clear that the gross overexposure experienced by the OP is caused by using an adapter that allows this Focus-Shoot switching convenience. Leaving the switch in Focus mode leaves the iris wide open regardless of the setting on the aperture control ring.

blackest Loc: Ireland

User ID wrote:

Some m42 adapters have the Pin Depressor Flange an... (show quote)

If you are not stopping down and shooting wide open, the F-stop will be wrong but it shouldnt effect the exposure.

Canon will meter wide open in aperture priority mode if you close up the aperture some , it just sees a darker day. Where you go wrong is telling the camera the f-stop you are actually using. if the lens is saying its F1.4 50mm then if you tell it you are using f2 it expects light to be half what it measured wide open and adjusts the shutter speed to suit. Do not tell the camera its f-stop is anything other than wide open and it will expose for the light it is measuring "wide open". Doesn't matter what the real aperture is. With some lenses you have a fully variable aperture more often than not I will monitor the shutter speed as I stop down and ensure it is fast enough for the lens I am using.

User ID

blackest wrote:

If you are not stopping down and shooting wide ope... (show quote)

That’s all right if using the internal meter. I was reading the OP saying that he sets all three “triangle” settings himself.

So I just re-read the OP and it really got ambiguous. But anywho, for the most widespread practice ... use of in-camera metering ... you’re absolutely right.

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The OP could likewise use the meter and forget about all that triangle stuff. The meter sees light, not numbers.

I am no longer clear at all how to read that “setting the triangle” stuff from the OP. I actually use the A-M switch as a focusing aid, but I seldom meter scenes. If I hit the shutter with the switch in the focus position that will generally result in gross overexposure.

JimH123 Loc: Morgan Hill, CA

User ID wrote:

That’s all right if using the internal meter. I wa... (show quote)

We really don't have an image to look at, and know very little about how the camera was set up. But if we suppose he was in aperture priority and had set the ISO rather high, it is possible the camera needed a faster shutter speed than it was able to go, ending up with an over exposed image. I don't know that Canon camera very well, and don't know if it tries to keep someone from shooting themself in the foot if the situation needs something the camera can't deliver. But I have encountered this issue with other cameras accidentally.

graybeard

User ID wrote:

That’s all right if using the internal meter. I wa... (show quote)

First, I shoot in manual (M). I normally have the ISO set to 100 and leave it. Then I generally set the SS next, to whatever I think is necessary to freeze/blur the subject. Finally, I deal with the aperture setting. With an automatic lens, I move the camera's aperture wheel to get the proper meter reading, no problem. With a manual lens, well, that is where I hit or miss. But I got several useful tips here, re the adapter, the lens slide switch and to use the lens aperture ring rather than the camera's aperture wheel. Lots of food for thought. Thanks to all.