The continued problem with 3rd party glass.
Jun 10, 2020 14:48:19 #
GerryER
Loc: Virginia USA
One of the things to remember is that glass technology has advanced such that the price for quality glass has come down, so it is easier for 3rd party manufacturers to produce quality optics at an affordable price. The camera manufacturers, like Nikon and Canon could sell at a lesser price, but that would reduce their market image and also the professional's "brag factor." This happened in the stereo (audio) market. Integrated electronics became so good and so inexpensive that it is hard to find a bad stereo these days at just about any price ( except, of course, the real no-name junk). I expect this is somewhat the same with optical glass, so serious 3rd party manufacturers can really compete with the higher end camera manufacturers.
Jun 10, 2020 14:49:09 #
Race Raccoon
Loc: Yankton, South Dakota
RichardSM wrote:
And why should Canon,Nikon, Sony share their information with other companies.!!!!!!
Let Tamron, Sigma create lens for their own camera’s.
Let Tamron, Sigma create lens for their own camera’s.
People buy these lenses for three main reasons, I believe. One, they are often less expensive. Two, they are better lenses than are comparable lenses made by the camera body manufacturers. And three, these particular lenses are not made by the camera body manufacturers in the desired focal length(s) and/or having the desired features.
Photographic manufacturers would all be better off if they would take a collaborative approach.
I believe Canikon & Sony would be better off sharing their information with the lens manufacturers and that doing so would be better for everyone - the camera body makers, the lens makers, and we consumers. The manufacturers would sell more of everything and we consumers would buy more of everything and we would have greater satisfaction with our photographic equipment.
Jun 10, 2020 14:56:46 #
Race Raccoon
Loc: Yankton, South Dakota
"if 3rd party glass cost the same or greater than the camera manufacture glass, which lens would most folks pick, the 3rd party glass or the camera company glass?"
I believe they would purchases the best lens regardless of brand name.
Another point. It's pretty obvious that often the camera body manufacturers decide not to produce lenses we need. Who knows why for certain, maybe they anticipate insufficient volume would be sold, they need to allocate RDTE resources elsewhere, etc. At least for those lenses, why not encourage the lens manufacturers to make them & to share information to help them do so. Everybody wins IMO.
I believe they would purchases the best lens regardless of brand name.
Another point. It's pretty obvious that often the camera body manufacturers decide not to produce lenses we need. Who knows why for certain, maybe they anticipate insufficient volume would be sold, they need to allocate RDTE resources elsewhere, etc. At least for those lenses, why not encourage the lens manufacturers to make them & to share information to help them do so. Everybody wins IMO.
Jun 10, 2020 15:01:47 #
Many third-party lenses are as good or better optically than OEM lenses. This is especially true of Sigma Art lenses, but also now applies to some Tamron and Tokina lenses. Build quality is also high. Then there are Zeiss lenses, which most OEM lenses can't touch optically. It is only necessary to read reviews to realize that third-party companies reverse-engineer their lenses pretty well, with many performing mechanical tasks such as AF and VR as well or better than OEM ones.
And while the pro grade lenses from the major camera manufacturers are top quality, consumer grade lenses are often of poorer build quality than their third-party rivals.
It is a bit of fake news to take two lenses with problems with a newly introduced body and try to blow that up into a case of systemic problems with third-party lenses in general.
And while the pro grade lenses from the major camera manufacturers are top quality, consumer grade lenses are often of poorer build quality than their third-party rivals.
It is a bit of fake news to take two lenses with problems with a newly introduced body and try to blow that up into a case of systemic problems with third-party lenses in general.
Jun 10, 2020 15:22:09 #
bamfordr
Loc: Campbell CA
Presumably (one hopes) the camera manufacturers have calculated that there is more money to be made in selling their lenses than they would make from increased body sales if they opened their architecture to third party lens manufacturers.
Jun 10, 2020 15:42:41 #
LFingar wrote:
Design glitches happen, and, they don't always show up immediately. Ask Boeing.
Jun 10, 2020 17:46:19 #
Bob Locher
Loc: Southwest Oregon
The competition of third party lens makers have forced the OEM's to improve their offers to compete. This is good for all of us. For sure some 3rd part glass is better than the competing OEM glass and for less money - and also there are 3rd party lenses the OEM's don't offer at all.
If you are thinking of buying new glass, check the reviews - carefully! There are only a few reviewers of lenses I would trust, but it is not hard to figure out who is giving honest reviews and who is trying to score freebies.
Also, in the next few years I expect Chinese lens manufacturing firms to become significant players and I would not be surprised to see Thai companies as well. And believe me, the OEM's know that better than I.
If you are thinking of buying new glass, check the reviews - carefully! There are only a few reviewers of lenses I would trust, but it is not hard to figure out who is giving honest reviews and who is trying to score freebies.
Also, in the next few years I expect Chinese lens manufacturing firms to become significant players and I would not be surprised to see Thai companies as well. And believe me, the OEM's know that better than I.
Jun 10, 2020 18:01:09 #
Bob Locher wrote:
The competition of third party lens makers have fo... (show quote)
but some of them seem to produce manual focus lenses, and for anything other than wide angle, I would never buy one of them
Jun 10, 2020 18:20:35 #
billnikon wrote:
3rd party glass was designed to work with many DSL... (show quote)
To other members thinking of buying a third party lens, read the reviews first. >Alan
Jun 10, 2020 19:05:51 #
Bob Locher
Loc: Southwest Oregon
That certainly is true - today. But they are proving they can make decent lens at very low prices. I confidently predict they will soon be upping their game soon with more sophisticated lenses, autofocus and still very aggressive pricing.
Jun 10, 2020 19:11:21 #
SonyBug wrote:
Actually, I do own one Tamron, not Canon or Nikon camera, but I have it because it is just better IQ than the maker brand in that category. Never thought I would say that, but I have tested one against the other.
Irrational.
Jun 10, 2020 19:35:28 #
LWW
Loc: Banana Republic of America
Bob Locher wrote:
The competition of third party lens makers have fo... (show quote)
South Korea.
ROKINON MF lenses have NIKKOR AIS MF like weight and feel with super optics and slick focusing.
I don’t know why they haven’t went to AF but eventually I’m sure they will.
Jun 10, 2020 19:46:23 #
Bob Locher
Loc: Southwest Oregon
Completely agree. Earlier they seemed to have quality control issues - some lenses in a manufacturing run were excellent, others rather less so, but I have heard nothing along those lines in the last several years. I think they are certainly getting their act together.
Jun 10, 2020 19:57:26 #
Jay Drew
Loc: Boise, Id.
Hi all This is somewhat off track, but I think related. (Moderator please remove if too far off the subject)
I'm ticked off at Nikon for their refusal to sell parts to 3rd party repair stations. It's part of the reason I switched to Sony. I have almost always bought used, & Nikon USA won't service Gray market gear. And they don't publish US serial #'s. I like KEH, but they can't tell me the serial # before I buy. B&H usually doesn't have the item I'm looking for & I don't know if they would give me the serial # before buying. (I consider B&H to be top rate)
Nikon strikes me a arrogant as Kodak was. Too big to fail, hmmm?
Thanks for your ear, Jay Drew
I'm ticked off at Nikon for their refusal to sell parts to 3rd party repair stations. It's part of the reason I switched to Sony. I have almost always bought used, & Nikon USA won't service Gray market gear. And they don't publish US serial #'s. I like KEH, but they can't tell me the serial # before I buy. B&H usually doesn't have the item I'm looking for & I don't know if they would give me the serial # before buying. (I consider B&H to be top rate)
Nikon strikes me a arrogant as Kodak was. Too big to fail, hmmm?
Thanks for your ear, Jay Drew
Jun 10, 2020 20:54:07 #
Bob Locher
Loc: Southwest Oregon
My take is that I'd have to say it is off track - but it is an important issue.
Nikon USA is owned by Nikon, and I am quite sure Nikon USA offers an important part of their profit structure, so they are taking all possible steps to stop profit "leakage". Personally, I feel they should be required by law to offer service on any product they manufactured for at least some certain period of time. I don't have a problem with them not honoring a gray market warranty but they should certainly offer service at fair prices. And updates and recalls to products offered for free should be given to all regardless of where the camera or equipment was purchased.
My understanding is that most gray market products come from places like Hong Kong. They know where a specific product was sold from the serial number - and they could shut off supplies to the source. It is their job to enforce market discipline - not the buyer's.
Nikon USA is owned by Nikon, and I am quite sure Nikon USA offers an important part of their profit structure, so they are taking all possible steps to stop profit "leakage". Personally, I feel they should be required by law to offer service on any product they manufactured for at least some certain period of time. I don't have a problem with them not honoring a gray market warranty but they should certainly offer service at fair prices. And updates and recalls to products offered for free should be given to all regardless of where the camera or equipment was purchased.
My understanding is that most gray market products come from places like Hong Kong. They know where a specific product was sold from the serial number - and they could shut off supplies to the source. It is their job to enforce market discipline - not the buyer's.
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