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NEF (RAW) + JPEG fine
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Jun 7, 2020 00:29:12   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
davyboy wrote:
You need to learn P.P. For editing jpegs as well


Editing JPEGs is more difficult, requires more skill, is more time consuming and produces poorer end results because it's not possible to avoid damage to the image from interactions between the JPEG compression grid and any tone/color changes to the image. Just don't do it. I never do. Saves me a huge amount of time -- big reason I process raw files is to cut down on the time at the computer. I'd rather be out with the camera taking photos than sitting at the computer editing JPEGs.

Joe

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Jun 7, 2020 08:37:43   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
How the heck did this thread jump from RAW Jpeg fine images to angry black women. I felt like I dozed off in one century and woke up in the next. WTH?


Absolutely no need to interject.

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Jun 7, 2020 09:03:10   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
Longshadow wrote:

Absolutely no need to interject.


Thank you. Now tell me what is the subject of this thread?

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Jun 7, 2020 09:31:19   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
Thank you. Now tell me what is the subject of this thread?


I believe discussion regarding saving RAW/+JPEG, both, or either.

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Jun 7, 2020 11:36:17   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
Ysarex wrote:
Editing JPEGs is more difficult, requires more skill, is more time consuming and produces poorer end results because it's not possible to avoid damage to the image from interactions between the JPEG compression grid and any tone/color changes to the image. Just don't do it. I never do. Saves me a huge amount of time -- big reason I process raw files is to cut down on the time at the computer. I'd rather be out with the camera taking photos than sitting at the computer editing JPEGs.

Joe

It really is fun to process jpegs and 8x10’s are truly awesome! I can’t tell if there is any difference. Unless perhaps blow it up to 300 percent but most people don’t do that. Could raw bring me more dynamic range probably but I’m so satisfied perhaps someday

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Jun 7, 2020 11:42:10   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
davyboy wrote:
Could raw bring me more dynamic range probably....


Not probably, absolutely. But if you're happy that's fine.

Joe

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Jun 7, 2020 12:28:22   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
davyboy wrote:
It really is fun to process jpegs and 8x10’s are truly awesome! I can’t tell if there is any difference. Unless perhaps blow it up to 300 percent but most people don’t do that. Could raw bring me more dynamic range probably but I’m so satisfied perhaps someday


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Jun 8, 2020 09:47:38   #
Silverrails
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
When I got my first DSLR I shot jpg. It was what I knew from the P&S cameras I had before.
Eventually I screwed up a setting and got blue pictures. I needed those pictures and they were not repeatable. It took hours with what I knew at the time to get something that looked reasonable from them. So I decided to try raw.

Shot raw+jpg for a while. Tried several editing programs and settled on Lightroom. Once I got comfortable with editing raw files I dropped the jpg, saving 30% of the card space. I was too cheap to just buy larger cards.

Then when I got to 10,000 images in my photopile I started having trouble finding things. Started to get serious about Lightroom's organization capabilities. That solved that problem.

Now I shoot raw only. I can get good jpgs if I pay attention to what I'm doing, but I want to avoid that. Shooting raw forces me to put my images through the raw conversion software (Lightroom in my case). Since my raw conversion program does my organizing also, everything gets into the organizing system. If I were to shoot jpg, I would be tempted to use the image directly, without putting it into Lightroom. If that happens, and the photo isn't in my LR catalog, there will come a time when I will not be able to find that photo because I have no good way to search for it beyond just randomly looking at images. That time interval is getting shorter as I am getting older.

In fact I frequently get into trouble when I take iPhone photos. They're right there and I use them immediately. If I don't download them and place them into the LR catalog, I have to depend on the iPhone Photos app, which shows me everything in chronological order. That means I have to remember when I took the photo I'm looking for. I'm terrible at remembering dates, so that is a bust for me. I can put them into albums, but I have so many albums that that only decreases the problem by about a factor of 2. Not nearly enough.
When I got my first DSLR I shot jpg. It was what I... (show quote)


Do you happen to know, does "Lightroom" work properly on a Chromebook Laptop?

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Jun 8, 2020 09:51:25   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
Silverrails wrote:
Do you happen to know, does "Lightroom" work properly on a Chromebook Laptop?
You cannot install the full program, but there is a web-based app. Click this link, then type "photo editing" in the search box: https://chrome.google.com/webstore

There are also a few Chromebook photo editors listed here:
https://www.androidcentral.com/best-photo-editor-your-chromebook
.

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Jun 8, 2020 10:40:13   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Silverrails wrote:
Do you happen to know, does "Lightroom" work properly on a Chromebook Laptop?


Never had or used a Chromebook laptop. Real laptops are not particularly costly and the apps are stored within the laptop, not on the cloud.

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Jun 8, 2020 21:29:58   #
dyximan
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
Never had or used a Chromebook laptop. Real laptops are not particularly costly and the apps are stored within the laptop, not on the cloud.

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Jun 11, 2020 21:19:52   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
Ysarex wrote:
Editing JPEGs is more difficult, requires more skill, is more time consuming and produces poorer end results because it's not possible to avoid damage to the image from interactions between the JPEG compression grid and any tone/color changes to the image. Just don't do it. I never do. Saves me a huge amount of time -- big reason I process raw files is to cut down on the time at the computer. I'd rather be out with the camera taking photos than sitting at the computer editing JPEGs.

Joe


Hmmm. That is Not my experience with retouching JPEGS.

I agree with this:
I'd rather be out with the camera taking photos than sitting at the computer.

That’s why I usually shoot JPEG when I am shooting for enjoyment. Now if you’re paying me for the photos I will shoot raw.

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Jun 12, 2020 02:05:14   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
JD750 wrote:
Hmmm. That is Not my experience with retouching JPEGS.

Care to put it to the test?

Below is an SOOC JPEG straight from my Fuji XT-2. It's the kitchen recycle bin taken with the camera set to auto white balance. You know about auto white balance with any brand camera -- close maybe but never really right. Do you shoot all your JPEGs with a custom WB set?

So your first retouch job with that JPEG is to get the WB correct. You're in luck. I gave you a target. There's a colorchecker in the bin lower left hand corner. Use it. Set a correct WB and upload the result.

My editing step to do this job with a raw file is one mouse click.

Joe


(Download)

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Jun 12, 2020 05:28:21   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Ysarex wrote:
You get the raw file either way and even if you only shoot raw you still get a JPEG. The camera is going to create the JPEG whether you want it or not because it embeds a copy of the JPEG into the raw file.

If you shoot raw + JPEG the implication is that you want the JPEG and should then expose to get as good a JPEG as possible. This will typically compromise the raw file to some degree as the exposure that creates a good JPEG is most likely reduced some from what you could apply to the raw file.

With digital sensors more exposure equals better image quality. However too much exposure nukes your highlights and your dead. It's kind of like playing chicken with a concrete wall. You want to stop as close to the wall as you can but never hit the wall. The camera engineers know this well and so when they adjust the software in your camera that creates JPEGs they tend to be conservative chicken players and they stop well before hitting the wall. You get a good JPEG and certainly a usable raw file.

But knowing what I just told you it starts to nag at you that your raw files could have been exposed more and would be just a little better. Most of the time it won't matter but then you eventually take a photo in which a little more exposure to the raw file really would have helped. Then you start considering just how good at playing chicken you can get and you start creating better raw files and bad JPEGs. Then there's no sense in creating bad JPEGs so you stop bothering.

You have a Nikon camera and Nikon's engineers play a pretty mean game of chicken. They cut the difference pretty close. This situation varies one camera maker to the next. I have a Fuji camera and they're as scared of that concrete wall as Trump is of an angry black woman. So if I expose to get a good JPEG with my Fuji my raw files are often underexposed by half of what they could be. I don't bother then to save the JPEGs since the exposures I set typically blow the JPEGs.

The moral of the story then is to a greater or lesser degree depending on the camera brand you can't set a best exposure for both the JPEG and raw -- you gotta pick one.

Joe
You get the raw file either way and even if you on... (show quote)



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Jun 12, 2020 11:29:19   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
Ysarex wrote:
Care to put it to the test? <snip>..Joe


Joe I’m sorry if I was not clear. I don’t like sitting behind the computer.

No amount of retouching will make a mediocre shot good. I just “X” the mediocre shots.

For the “keepers” I find jpegs to be much less work than processing a raw file.

You are correct that the wrong white balance is difficult to correct. It can be done but it is scene dependent. But color, ie white balance, is also scene dependent when processing raw.

Color is one of those things I work to get right in the camera. I screw up color in camera then that is not a keeper. When reviewing images it gets an X. I don’t mess with it. I move on to the good shots.

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