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Out of plumb buildings full frame vs crop
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May 31, 2020 22:02:51   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
You have the same perspective keystoning with your eyes. It is called "perspective". It started being recognized by artists in the 14oo's and the paintings became much more realistic as a result. Things look smaller, the further away they are from you. That is nature. If they don't look smaller, the image does not look natural. If you and your camera are on the ground, the bottom of the building is closer to you than the top and in nature looks smaller. So why try to get rid of a perfectly natural and real fact of geometry?

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Jun 1, 2020 07:31:39   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Retina wrote:
When photographing buildings from the ground with a shift lens in order to keep the image plane plumb, the effect is like using a longer focal length lens for the top of a building than for the lower floors. Shifts may keep the building face parallel with the sensor/film, but it also expands the image of the upper floors relative to the lower ones. The same effect occurs when applying stretch in post. Stretch applies the same graduated zoom lens effect just like like tilting the easel in the darkroom to make the same correction. (Of course you lose some resolution in the stretched portion of the print.)

A full and drastic correction, as stated earlier, strikes us as artificial. In person, and partly because our retinas are curved, we do not see the effect of different focal lengths when using peripheral vision or just moving our eyes up and down as we do all the time without thinking about it. As stated by cdayton, we are also used to see converging lines with out eyes. We are so used to it in a 3D world that manipulating the image or the lens to keep the lines parallel in the image causes the tops of buildings to seem unnaturally expanded. To mitigate the problem of using flat image planes to cover varying distances in the same photo and while trying to prevent convergence, I try to be as far away from a building as possible and use a longer lens. Not always easy where objects near the building are blocking the view.
When photographing buildings from the ground with ... (show quote)


Not really. Using a shift lens is like changing the camera's position - in this case a higher point of view.

In fact, shift is often used to "see" around obstacles by virtue of the different point of view.

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Jun 1, 2020 08:57:09   #
MW
 
dyximan wrote:
Thank you yes I've used the auto correct and the manual correct in Lightroom, But what I was trying to figure out is 1, is there a difference in that perspective between a full frame camera and a cop sensor, And or if a tilt shift is basically the only thing you can use to do it (IN) camera.

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Jun 1, 2020 08:59:56   #
MW
 
Simple answer to both: no.
FF vs APS-C is irrelevant.
A tilt-shift lens is not the only way to correct perspective.

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Jun 1, 2020 11:42:25   #
FotoHog Loc: on Cloud 9
 
CatMarley wrote:
You have the same perspective keystoning with your eyes. It is called "perspective". It started being recognized by artists in the 14oo's and the paintings became much more realistic as a result. Things look smaller, the further away they are from you. That is nature. If they don't look smaller, the image does not look natural. If you and your camera are on the ground, the bottom of the building is closer to you than the top and in nature looks smaller. So why try to get rid of a perfectly natural and real fact of geometry?
You have the same perspective keystoning with your... (show quote)


That is true, but taken from certain angles the perspective can get very exaggerated which may not serve the photographer's intent.

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Jun 2, 2020 02:00:26   #
dyximan
 
MW wrote:
Simple answer to both: no.
FF vs APS-C is irrelevant.
A tilt-shift lens is not the only way to correct perspective.


Thank you that I knew but you answered my question as I would like it simpley, thanks again

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Jun 2, 2020 02:01:16   #
dyximan
 
Gene51 wrote:
Not really. Using a shift lens is like changing the camera's position - in this case a higher point of view.

In fact, shift is often used to "see" around obstacles by virtue of the different point of view.

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Jun 2, 2020 02:03:45   #
dyximan
 
Thank you I understand most people apparently just call them out as tilt shift lenses but yes the tilt portion would be what would change the perspective. What my original question was simply would there be a difference in the perspective between using a full frame camera and a crop sensor camera, I knew there were other ways of doing it with post processing etc. And thank you for taking the time to respond

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Jun 2, 2020 06:22:42   #
BebuLamar
 
dyximan wrote:
Thank you I understand most people apparently just call them out as tilt shift lenses but yes the tilt portion would be what would change the perspective. What my original question was simply would there be a difference in the perspective between using a full frame camera and a crop sensor camera, I knew there were other ways of doing it with post processing etc. And thank you for taking the time to respond


The answer is no if you keep the same angle of view that is using longer lenses for larger format.

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Jun 2, 2020 11:17:47   #
Stage Light Loc: Northeast
 
Kind of expensive, but works.
tilt shift lens

Didn't check too well. this is already mentioned.

You have to have the camera level, then adjust the tilt to get your full picture.

Yup, you can sort of see around corners with the shift. The back and foregrounds will be a little different.

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Jun 3, 2020 14:33:19   #
gouldopfl
 
If you want to get rid of the tilt, the best way is to use a tilt shift lens. Architecture photographer use these all of the time. I used to use one but no longer do that type of phography. They also make it easy to shoot interior walls in a home or other places. Great on shooting buildings instead of jumping through hoops to align the shot properly.

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Jun 4, 2020 08:40:31   #
rustfarmer
 
I use to have a Mamiya film camera with "tilts and swings" that would correct this parallax issue. Do any DLSRs offer the same?

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Jun 4, 2020 10:48:39   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
StanMac wrote:
Convergence of vertical and horizontal lines is a natural visual phenomenon. Your camera sees what your eyes see. Some correction for certain architectural subjects is acceptable and makes the image appear more as our mind’s eye sees it. But trying to correct the convergence on an image of a skyscraper, for example, would result in an image that is unacceptable, IMO. It is odd in a way that horizontal convergence is acceptable but we seem to feel that vertical convergence needs to be corrected as a defect or shortcoming in an image.

Stan
Convergence of vertical and horizontal lines is a ... (show quote)


My argument exactly, except that you put it better than I did!

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Jun 4, 2020 10:57:17   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
I haven't read the entire post so this may have been said before.. Makes no difference. Full frame or crop sensor will both have "keystone" problems. Your own lens (in you eye) has the same problem . The sensor (the retina) is connected to circuitry (the brain) which is "programmed" by millions of years of development. To correct for the problem. It's the same with the keft/right stereoscopic vision thing

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Jun 4, 2020 11:13:54   #
dyximan
 
Thank you Bobric Although I appreciate all the responses from all who answered. I thought I had spelled out my understanding of post processing and tilt shift from the onset. And that my question was rather simple straight forward, and could have been answered with yes or no,. Amd even though you didn't read my original post. You got it and answered THE question.
Thank you

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