Wanderer2 wrote:
I may have missed mention of it in this thread but for the OP, Affinity Photo has a free trial, I'm not sure how long currently but probably two weeks. The best way to find out if it's for you is to try it so the only loss is the time spent if it isn't for you.
Every time there is a thread in UHH on Affinity Photo Joe brings up how terrible the develop persona is, in his opinion.
Hey, I'm being talked about.
Which is fine. And you're right I do bring up problems with Affinity's Develop Persona. I'm going to keep doing that because I think it's important to know. Folks who are considering adopting AP deserve to know as much as possible up front. In all fairness I do make an effort to also praise AP as an excellent raster editor and the best bargain available.
And it is that. AP is at heart a raster image editor. Serif has done a fine job with AP as a raster editor; AP is done right and it works well.
Wanderer2 wrote:
I've used AP for over two years, after bouts with several other programs (LR, PSE, darkroom, FastStone, Silky Pix, and Raw Therapee), and found Affinity Photo the easiest to learn and most intuitive for me. My depth of knowledge and experience with photo editing doesn't begin to compare with Joes's but I simply do not perceive the develop persona problems Joe describes. In the AP workbook Serif makes clear that the main function of the develop persona is to prepare the file for further editing in the other personas. My most commonly used procedure (this is on landscapes only) is to put a file through the develop persona at the beginning, then sometimes a crop, then to the filters section for possible sharpening, haze reduction, and clarity, the to the adjustments section for some of the many of the adjustment functions AP has, then exporting. This is not all I do but is the most typical (I do find the inpainting tool for removing unwanted things from a scene to work well and be very useful). Admittedly there is much more available in AP and perhaps I will encounter the problems Joe describes with the develop module (persona) If/when I proceed to other functions. But, as of now and FWIW, I don't find the problems with the develop persona. After a free trial I was sold on AP and use it almost exclusively now.
I've used AP for over two years, after bouts with ... (
show quote)
So let's talk more about my concerns so everyone understands the issues. Some remarks on my perspective:
Obviously what's important to me doesn't have to be important to everyone else. This is what I do. It's pretty much all I do and it's what I've done for the past 40 years. Since 1975 photography in one form or another has been my only source of income. Most of the folks here are of course enthusiasts and don't have my priorities.
I shoot and process raw files. So my focus is on a raw processing workflow. I want a photo to look the way I intend and need tools to make that possible; apart from that I place a very high value on my workflow being 100% non-destructive and non-linearly re-editable. If I can achieve that I consider it a win. In order to achieve that goal one practice I employ is to avoid using raster editors. Processing raw files with a raster editor doing the heavy lifting usually forces a destructive workflow. AP always forces a destructive workflow because of the Develop module.
That sounds bad but it may not be too bad depending on your priorities. Destructive editing has two distinct meanings. 1. Protecting the original. We never want to develop a practice where we could overwrite our original photo. Catastrophe! If we're working with raw files we're protected since we can't overwrite our original raw data but we could delete the file. 2. Destructive editing also refers to our processing work. An edit is partially destructive if our processing apps force us to re-do some or all of our editing work in order to make a change. Obviously that can be a higher priority for some of us than others. It's very high for me and I do go back to my edited images and often enough decide I want to change something. I get pretty unhappy if I decide I want to make a further adjustment to an image and discover I have to re-do most or all of the original edit. I get downright ugly if I decide I want to make that adjustment to a collection of 400 images and discover the same problem.
In what way is AP a forced destructive process for a raw workflow? Start with a raw file and it opens in the Develop Persona. Perform edits: set the white balance, make tone/color changes, crop, sharpen the image and when you're ready click Develop. All your edits are applied and the raw file is converted to and RGB image and opened in the Photo Persona. But any work you did in the Develop persona got discarded. AP doesn't save your Develop Persona editing, all other raw converters do.
So you continue to edit your RGB image in the raster (Photo Persona) component of AP. As you work with the color in the image you realize that you'd like to go back and tweak the white balance. AP then forces you to start your edit over from scratch. Your work in the Develop Persona was not saved as it would have been by any other raw converter and you get to start from scratch. That sucks. I'd at least like to be able to re-open the raw file and have my edit pick back up from where I left the raw file. It would using any other raw converter.
Now we also see here the reason for my earlier comment; "Processing raw files with a raster editor doing the heavy lifting usually forces a destructive workflow." Using an editor like AP means adopting a dual app workflow. Editing becomes: raw conversion a) app one and then RGB raster editing b) app two. That's the AP model: a) app one the Develop Persona and b) app two the Photo Persona. That's also the legacy model. It's what we all did for the past 15 years. The problem with that model is the move from app one to app two. Typically you can't go back to the work done in app one, make an adjustment and expect that adjustment to update through the work in app two -- destructive workflow.
A whole lot of people are happy with that model and don't place the level of priority that I do on a seamless raw workflow where I retain full access to my entire edit start to finish. But movement in the industry is in my direction. It started with LR and what we're seeing now is more and more of the raw conversion software expanding their toolsets so that we can cut out the raster editor for most if not nearly all of our editing.
Back to AP and the Develop Persona. AP is designed for us to use the raster editor -- the dual app model if we start with a raw file. AP's toolset in the Develop Persona is sparse. There's no question we're headed for the Photo Persona to finish the edit and so all of our editing is partially destructive. If you get the idea in your head that you'd like to change something you did in Develop then you just start over. What this does to most AP users is encourage them to do as little as possible in Develop and get right to work ASAP in the Photo Persona. AP is pushing in the opposite direction than the rest of our industry in that sense.
The dual app model has another liability which is large file sizes and an insatiable need to big disk space. If I succeed in my goal and keep my editing 100% non-destructive in my raw converter I use only 20% of the disk space needed to complete the edit in AP. Multiply that times tens of thousands of photos.
To wrap up; AP is an excellent raster editor and a great bargain. I'm familiar with it because I teach this stuff but if I can do it with my own work I prefer to use 20% less disk space than an AP user requires and I prefer to keep my raw workflow 100% non-destructive and non-linearly re-editable. To do that I need a single app solution that doesn't rely on raster editing.
If I wanted or needed to use AP I'd at least supplement it with a raw converter that saves my work. That's just bogus that AP won't save your Develop editing. It doesn't have to be expensive -- DarkTable is free and most cameras are supplied with a raw converter from the camera manufacturer.
Joe