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Crop Sensor as a Teleconverter
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May 6, 2020 19:21:12   #
Canisdirus
 
billnikon wrote:
Cool, it would even be better if Sony made a crop sensor camera that looked, say like a Sony a7rIII body style with a vertical grip. Now that is a camera I would not hesitate to buy and mount my Sony 200-600 and 400 2.8, just imagine, a field of view of 600 at 2.8 at 43 mp. YUM YUM YUM.


Interesting side note...
The E-Mount was never intended for the North American market or Europe. It was intended for Asia...smaller hands idea. Of course, when sales took off...they gladly complied.
I'm hoping they put out the A77III with this sensor.
It would be a perfect marriage...

Nice lenses btw...

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May 6, 2020 19:46:26   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
Sony has made the same mistake with the E-mount as Nikon made with the F-mount - TOO SMALL ......
IMO, Sony only ever originally intended the E-mount for APSC - FF came as an after thought. And yes, I am ready for the backlash from the Sony fan boys ! FYI I AM a Sony user ....
.

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May 6, 2020 19:51:24   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
Canisdirus wrote:
Interesting side note...
The E-Mount was never intended for the North American market or Europe. It was intended for Asia...smaller hands idea. Of course, when sales took off...they gladly complied.
I'm hoping they put out the A77III with this sensor.
It would be a perfect marriage...

Nice lenses btw...


The A-mount is DEAD. I have it , I use it - but it is still dead.

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May 6, 2020 20:25:30   #
Canisdirus
 
imagemeister wrote:
The A-mount is DEAD. I have it , I use it - but it is still dead.


I was talking to a Sony sponsored photographer the other day... he doesn't think so.

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May 6, 2020 22:41:44   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
R.G. wrote:
That's exactly what the issue is. Magnification means making bigger. Where images are concerned, magnification also means zooming in on specific areas. That can be done optically and it can also be done by "cropping " the field of view. The issue is whether there's a loss of quality or not.


A 600mm telephoto has a given field of view. a 400mm lens on a crop sensor has a similar field of view. But depth of field, is going to be different. Cropping on a full frame image to show a narrower field of view simulates optical magnification, but the depth of field doesn't change.

However all of this discussion is academic. You use the tools you have to make the best pictures you can. Crop camera, crop the image in post, use a teleconverter, use a crop sensor camera. When all is said and done, it's the image that counts, and in most cases, it is nearly impossible to tell which method was used, unless you are looking at printed images and using a loupe.

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May 6, 2020 22:57:53   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Blaster34 wrote:
Thank you Gene, really appreciate the excellent articles, very informative....Maybe I should consider saving the $500 and work on getting closer along with more practice, its not imperative right now. Not to mention the teleconverter would be strictly limited use for those longer distances, when/if needed and would I gain that much? As for a second camera, I could use that $500 to start saving for a 'pocketable' Sony, RX100VII?....Thanks again.


Thanks!

I am always in favor of saving money. The RX 100 VII is an outstanding pocketable camera. Patience and learning about my wild subjects has helped more than the gear. I have shot on occasion with a 600mm F4 on a D800 and a 1.4x TC, but I am happier with the overall response of the combination without the 1.4X TC, and cropping. This is only possible with very sharp lenses. A more modest lens is less suitable for cropping OR use with a 1.4x TC. So, in my experience, a high MP camera AND very crisp optics is a good solution, and the 1.4X TC is optional.

These are a few images taken with the 600mm F4, 1.4X TC on a D800 and some heavy cropping - simply because I could not get close enough. There was a swamp between me and the subjects.


(Download)


(Download)


(Download)

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May 6, 2020 23:01:25   #
repleo Loc: Boston
 
Apart from all of the magnification vs angle of vision IQ issues raised already, I think a major consideration should be the weight of the 200-400 mm on a small body like the A6xxx. The lens weighs 4 1/2 pounds. The lens mount will help on a tripod, but I think it would be very difficult to hand hold. Also, the polycarbonate body of the A6000 will flex under that load unless the lens is supported 100% of the time.

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May 7, 2020 06:43:08   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
imagemeister wrote:
The A-mount is DEAD. I have it , I use it - but it is still dead.


Agreed, BUT, an E mount cropped sensor 45 mp camera, now that is something to contemplate.

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May 7, 2020 15:46:18   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
An APS-C sensor has about 42% of the area a full frame sensor.

So if you crop to APS-C from your full frame 24MP a7III you'll effectively be "shooting with a 10MP camera". It doesn't matter whether you crop in-camera using some sort of APS-C mode or do the crop in post-processing. Exactly the same results... 10MP.

If instead you pick up an APS-C camera it will most likely be 24MP, same resolution as your full frame camera, but smaller individual pixel sites that are more crowded on the smaller sensor. As a result, the APS-C camera will not be able to shoot clean images... free of digital "noise"... at as high ISO as your full frame camera. And there will be some slight reduction in image quality. But it overall will likely be better than using a teleconverter!

In fact, with the APS-C camera you get slightly stronger effect.... 1.5X instead of 1.4X that most teleconverters do.

And, as a bonus, there's no "light lost" with the APS-C camera. When you attach a teleconverter to a lens, you lose some light. In effect, a 200mm f/2.8 lens with a 1.4X TX attached "becomes" a 280mm f/4 combo. But if you use the same 200mm f/2.8 lens on an APS-C camera, it will instead "act like" a 300mm f/2.8 lens would on full frame. More gain in focal length, less loss in effective aperture... what's not to love! Well, except that an APS-C camera is larger and more complicated than a teleconverter... and it's likely to cost a bit more.

Note: As far as depth of field is concerned, an f/2.8 lens will "act like" approx. f/4 on the APS-C camera.... It's harder to "blur down" backgrounds with large aperture lenses on an APS-C camera. But, only DoF is effected in this manner. Exposure isn't.

Using a teleconverter on a lens... and reducing the amount of light reaching the camera.... also can effect autofocus performance. Depending upon the APS-C camera you choose, there may be little or no loss of AF performance. APS-C cameras also often have a higher frame rate for continuous shooting, as well... though I don't think that's the case with your a7III.

I see an a6100 can be bought for under $600... while the Sony 1.4X teleconverter is selling for $550.

I'd recommend you look for a camera model has a control layout most similar to that of your a7III....This sort of combo would be the easiest to switch back and forth using.

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May 7, 2020 17:15:17   #
bull drink water Loc: pontiac mi.
 
can't we keep it simple?
I have a 24mp fx, and a 24mp dx camera. except for a dx wide angle the rest of my lenses are fx.
with my dx cameras I get the sweet spot with full mps. with my G F2.8 lenses I get excellent iq from both cameras using the 1.4x and 2.0x tc's.
I also have a Sony 500mm mirror lens with my fx camera and my 1.4x tc I get good quality ad auto focus.
I've given my equipment many workouts so I know what it will do.

i'm also into medium format and have to deal with crop factors. a 645d camera has a smaller sensor than a 645 film camers but uses thee same lenses.

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May 7, 2020 17:36:45   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
bull drink water wrote:
can't we keep it simple?
I have a 24mp fx, and a 24mp dx camera. except for a dx wide angle the rest of my lenses are fx.
with my dx cameras I get the sweet spot with full mps. with my G F2.8 lenses I get excellent iq from both cameras using the 1.4x and 2.0x tc's.
I also have a Sony 500mm mirror lens with my fx camera and my 1.4x tc I get good quality ad auto focus.
I've given my equipment many workouts so I know what it will do.

i'm also into medium format and have to deal with crop factors. a 645d camera has a smaller sensor than a 645 film camers but uses thee same lenses.
can't we keep it simple? br I have a 24mp fx, and ... (show quote)


I have heard of and used the MINOLTA MAXXUM AF REFLEX 500mm 1:8 MIRROR LENS, but never the Sony. Interesting.

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May 7, 2020 18:13:29   #
a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel
 
billnikon wrote:
I have heard of and used the MINOLTA MAXXUM AF REFLEX 500mm 1:8 MIRROR LENS, but never the Sony. Interesting.


The Maxxum is the same product according to old articles. I have one and it works on both my A-mount adapters (with and without AF) on my a6500.


(Download)

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May 7, 2020 19:19:43   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
billnikon wrote:
I have heard of and used the MINOLTA MAXXUM AF REFLEX 500mm 1:8 MIRROR LENS, but never the Sony. Interesting.


They ARE the SAME - but, most people think the Sony is worth more and, Sony does NOT sell them anymore !
.

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