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My Doubts About Raw
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Feb 17, 2020 17:29:13   #
ButchS Loc: Spokane, WA
 
speters wrote:
Of course, because jpegs are already processed! The difference is that the camera decided on the how, as that is up to you when shooting raw!


Not really. Or maybe I should say; Yes the camera decided how, but I decided the "what." With the hundreds of menu options my camera has. I made the decisions and let the camera worry about the technical means to execute those decisions. I always shoot JPEG+RAW. The RAW is a backup in case I need to recreate a photo. But I have never used any of the RAW files. The JPEGs encapsulate my vision much better. I only have to make small tweaks to them instead of building them by hand from the bottom up.

I've been shooting Fuji X for the last 3 years. I love the Fuji film simulations.

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Feb 17, 2020 17:35:21   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
UHH has a significant proportion of aging people, particularly retired men who are accustomed to having positions of respect and authority and now have suddenly been put out to pasture and deprived of the status they once enjoyed. They now find themselves at loose ends, useless, slowing down physically, and often in pain. They may not be as mentally sharp as they once were, and they can become angry, bitter and resentful.



Well, at least that describes me.

Mike
UHH has a significant proportion of aging people, ... (show quote)

Hey watch your mouth son I’m only going to be 70 just graduated from high school a few a I can’t remember! This is my final answer to everyone on dis site I’m not shooting in jpeg or raw anymore! I’m I’m goin to wait for something else. I think 🙃

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Feb 17, 2020 17:45:34   #
Jersey guy Loc: New Joisey
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
I don’t believe that there is any one way to process a raw file. So we can’t give you a set sequence of steps for your images. If there were such a thing it would probably be built into the post processing software so that everyone would get perfect images and you would only be doing small tweaks to them.

Modern cameras produce pretty good jpgs as long as you get the exposure fairly close. Where raw processing shines is in a situation where the dynamic range of the scene is too close to the camera’s limit or a camera setting gets bumped or a subject is backlit or some other non-optimal conditions. For most people these things occur only occasionally. But some of us use raw as insurance because raw Processing can handle more extreme situations than jpgs. It’s not always necessary, but it’s nice to have the option.
I don’t believe that there is any one way to proce... (show quote)


"Most modern cameras......!" Interesting comment as I can recite a situation that I encountered in 2001 (I recall the date exactly as it was just before 9/11). We were on a trip and a fellow traveler had an early Sony, I believe it was, and in the photo he later emailed to some of us the blue sky was clearly divided into sections that were almost exactly the look of painting by the numbers. Obviously, the algorithms that are used now are vastly better but we need to acknowledge that JPGs are lossy, compressed images and that RAW has all the info from scratch. Since most cameras can capture JPG and RAW simultaneously that can offer a way out of the dilemma.

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Feb 17, 2020 17:47:53   #
leftyD500 Loc: Ocala, Florida
 
I want to apologize to everyone about remarks I made on this post. I can say I was just having a bad day, but, I was just having a bad day. Please accept my humble apologies. God Bless all of you.

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Feb 17, 2020 17:49:21   #
hassighedgehog Loc: Corona, CA
 
There is nothing wrong with choosing JPG over RAW. Not everyone WANTS to work on the computer to create a photograph. Just because there is more choice of correction is not a reason to use a particular process. Maybe the work is too much or the multitude of choice is too much for some. The more choices between colors the less the eye actually sees the difference between two shades.

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Feb 17, 2020 17:49:55   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
davyboy wrote:
Hey watch your mouth son I’m only going to be 70 just graduated from high school a few a I can’t remember! This is my final answer to everyone on dis site I’m not shooting in jpeg or raw anymore! I’m I’m goin to wait for something else. I think 🙃


I guess you told me!

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Feb 17, 2020 17:50:37   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Selene03 wrote:
yum!!!!!!


If you PM me I'll pass along some of my secrets. Food and otherwise.

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Feb 17, 2020 17:51:08   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
Jersey guy wrote:
"Most modern cameras......!" Interesting comment as I can recite a situation that I encountered in 2001 (I recall the date exactly as it was just before 9/11). We were on a trip and a fellow traveler had an early Sony, I believe it was, and in the photo he later emailed to some of us the blue sky was clearly divided into sections that were almost exactly the look of painting by the numbers. Obviously, the algorithms that are used now are vastly better but we need to acknowledge that JPGs are lossy, compressed images and that RAW has all the info from scratch. Since most cameras can capture JPG and RAW simultaneously that can offer a way out of the dilemma.
"Most modern cameras......!" Interestin... (show quote)
I would hardly include a camera in use in 2001 as a “modern camera”.

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Feb 17, 2020 17:53:42   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
TriX wrote:
👍👍 completely agree. I cringe when a guest asks me to cook anything overdone whether a steak or seafood, but of course I do it. My wife is the worst, and after 39 years, I’ve given up trying - I guess she likes tasteless cardboard meat or seafood.


My deepest condolences . . .

Food is now a hobby for me, like photography. Once I made a living from it, now I just enjoy it. My wife is not permitted in my kitchen - ever. Luckily she enjoys what I make for her.

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Feb 17, 2020 18:00:51   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
FactMan wrote:
This whole discussion reminds me of discussions we used to have back in the 20th century when you could take along slides and/or prints to the local camera club and have someone 'judge' them. Some would be 'wonderful' photos to one or two people, while others would be 'failures' to an equal number of people. Opinions might change if the judge shared or didn't share your view. The same kind of discussion probably went on way back when it was a choice between color or black and white, or between sepia or not sepia. Maybe even plate or film. Certainly went on with slides or prints. And let's not forget the debates about which kind of film was 'best.'
For most people, jpeg is going to be the 'best' option, because it is relatively easy to do, and is handled by the camera. RAW is better for other people, especially if you like 'manipulating' images.

So, let's just accept the disagreement, but recognize the right of others to disagree with whatever I say? Or whatever photo I produce. At the end of the day, it is all art, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
This whole discussion reminds me of discussions we... (show quote)


Interesting observations. My first experiences with that happened at rail fan get-togethers. The important thing was to capture the particular locomotive of piece of rolling stock, not to make "art." All of the slides and prints were interesting, because the subject was interesting.

Similarly, people value pictures of their grand kids because it is their grand kids, not because of "art."

In my opinion, the most important thing is the subject, the second is the quality of the image, and the third is the equipment used to get the image.

1. Shoot what interests you.

2. The only bad photograph is the one you didn't take.

3. The best camera is the one you have with you.

4. Learn techniques through experimentation and practice.

That should keep anyone busy for a lifetime. Who has time for arguing?

Mike

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Feb 17, 2020 18:01:34   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
tgreenhaw wrote:
This. I almost always shoot Raw+Jpg. The majority of the time Straight Out Of the Camera JPGs are fine, but sometimes I like having the Raw so I can post process for the best possible result or pull a bad exposure out of the fire.

These days, very large memory cards are so inexpensive and fast, there's no real reason not to save both IMHO.


The next step is to check just how far you can push exposure, saturation, sharpening, noise reduction etc - and in those situations jpegs are completely useless. I standardized my shooting workflow on raw just because I know myself, and I have a tendency to forget things like what I have set my camera for - raw or jpeg.

Here is an example of why I have no use for jpeg. First image was a deliberate exposure - that looks severely underexposed. The second came out just the way I envisioned it. Shooting anything close to acceptable as a jpeg would have been pointless. The edit took all of 45 secs - so I don't want to hear about all the extra work and time to process that raw requires. It really doesn't - at least not for me.

_DSC1352-2 by Gene Lugo, on Flickr

_DSC1352 by Gene Lugo, on Flickr

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Feb 17, 2020 18:04:12   #
FactMan
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:

That should keep anyone busy for a lifetime. Who has time for arguing?

Mike

Absolutely!

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Feb 17, 2020 18:05:39   #
ButchS Loc: Spokane, WA
 
Jersey guy wrote:
we need to acknowledge that JPGs are lossy, compressed images


Set your camera to save the jpegs in the highest quality setting, it's usually just called "FINE". When you work on them in Photoshop, save them as PSD files. When you have the final version, save it as PSD and export it as a JPEG at a quality setting of 100.

Alternate approach. After downloading the photo to your computer, open the JPEG in photoshop or other tool and immediately save the image as TIFF. Then work only on the TIFF until you have your final image. Then export a copy as JPEG for publishing.

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Feb 17, 2020 18:06:11   #
mniblick
 
I set my camera to capture both RAW and JPEG. When I get a shot that I really like, I will spend some time adjusting the RAW file. For the rest, JPEG is just fine. I save the RAW files and dig them out whenever I come across a nice Lightroom preset that would seem to suit that image.

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Feb 17, 2020 18:14:23   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
Gene51 wrote:
The next step is to check just how far you can push exposure, saturation, sharpening, noise reduction etc - and in those situations jpegs are completely useless. I standardized my shooting workflow on raw just because I know myself, and I have a tendency to forget things like what I have set my camera for - raw or jpeg.

Here is an example of why I have no use for jpeg.


Such a great example. I have no doubt that the second image looks a lot more like the scene looked to you at the time than the first image does, as well.

Mike

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