TomC. Loc: Bel Air, MD

To whom are you replying? You need to click on "quote reply" under the person's post so you know who it's for.
I clicked on "quote reply" to send this to you.

P-J Loc: UK

I thought I had clicked "quote reply"?

If not your post? Apologies

John N Loc: HP14 3QF Stokenchurch, UK

No one in particular. It just came to me that there was a visible to tell the difference between U.S. light and U.K. light. More ideas are making it clear why this is so - our position on the globe means that with the exception of Alaska all of the U.S. is further South than are we so the light is traveling through more atmosphere. I do you use the quote button - when I'm replying to a specific point, but this has become very general.

However, I will look and see if my answers refer to any particular posting in future.

chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA

Yes, it is physical and the nature of how the globe (and our relative positions on it) relate to sunshine. I went to the UK for a friend's wedding long ago, in November as I recall. Well, after surviving my conditioning concerning the direction of traffic, I found my hosts and we made it outside the terminal. I looked to the *very* low (to me) sun...my friend read my mind and said, "...yes, that's as high as it gets!" Here in LA we are roughly 34 degrees north of the equator...London is 51 degrees north. That's a pretty big jump. So the location alone contributes to how we "see" light; less atmospheric interference vis a vis more. All that said, I've found my tastes changing over the years...from my HDR daze to now, where I'm very careful with the sliders. YMMV.

2Much Loc: WA

Perhaps the people who fled those bleak rocks simply have more adventurous tastes. Something similar to the difference in cuisines. While Americans enjoy and pursue tremendous variety and vibrancy, those clinging fast to the drear Isles content themselves with another day of porridge, toast sandwiches, and boiled potato suppers.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

After over 100 posts in this thread, it difficult for me to believe that Ansel Adams and William Mortensen are actually dead or have not been reincarnated into half the members of this forum that constantly argue or carry on about realism or otherwise in photography. The war goes on!

I am beginning to relate the phrase "OVER-PROCESSED" to unhealthy foods that will clog my arteries, cause cancer, and result in my untimely demise! If my roses are too red and my skies are too blue- my vision will become impaired because I have displeased the processing gods!

I think it's important to differentiate between poorly crafted photography and highly stylized work. Actions like sharpening an image should be done subtly and not by creating a distracting line surrounding or encircling the edge of every component of the image. Perhaps colors should no be ostentatiously emphasized just for the hell of doing that? Perhaps again, in a landscape, portrait or still life image, contrast should not usually be raised to the level of "line copy". On the other hand, if any of these extreme measures have to do with the photographer's artistic vision and not just an accident or as the result of technical ignorance - why not? Are some of us setting "standards" for everyone else based on OUR vision or interpretations?

Some folks blame digital processing for all the exaggeration although both poorly crafted photography and many intentionally extreme effects existed in photography-in the darkroom, long before computers were invented. There's a log list- paper negatives, texture screens, solarizations, posterizations, the Sabatier effect, high contrast, cross-processing, and more or just Uncle Oscar, in his darkroom, decides to print his nephews birthday party picture o, #5 paper on his new condenser enlarger just because he likes rich blacks (mistake)!

Some traditional professional retouchers were masters of ther art and others were amateur embalmers! In my long career in professional portraiture, many cliets came in and told me, rig off the bat, to "retouch the hell out of my portraits"- I needed to educate them! The best retouchers KNOW WHEN to stop retouching an image and WHAT NOT to retouch!

Back in the film era, Kodak alone provided over 35 different color films each with its own palette of colors and certain biases. If a photographer went out and shot Kodachrome, underexposed 1/2 a stop used a polarizing filter, and printed his images on Cibachrome materials- was that over-processing? Ektachrome (EPN) exposed and processed properly- you couldn't' find more accurate color reproduction and a 2/3 overexposure you made "pastel drawings" in high key! Nowadays we can flip a few switches and slide a few sliders and do any of this and much more- it's just a matter of learning how and when. Many folks haven't learned as yet and many folks simply have a different perception, vision or imagination.

The digital age in photography has also brought with it a great deal of crossover into the world of computer art, graphic arts, special effects that were once relegated to the lithographic printing industry. Photographers have always emulated paintings, etchings, watercolors, and pastel works- now it easier and more convenient and some may tend to overdo it at times- or not! Even in my daily work in commercial photography, I am called upon to pull off stuff that used to be the job of pre-press folks at the printing plant. Use to be that we just handed in a straight print or transparency- not always the case anymore.

Then again, we all have our own psychological input into our work. Having been raised in an industrialized section of Brooklyn where smog, smoke, air pollution were all commonplace, I am still a sucker for rich blue skies and plush clouds and GREEN foliage. I tend to lie warm skin tones. Yet, I spent half of my life in the color lab making certain that product shots were right on dead accurate as to color reproduction. It depends on the day of the week!

chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA

Great comment.

Bill P

I can;t complain too much. When shooting film, I shot Agfacolor Ultra 50 where appropriate.

srt101fan

Ed, your comments are a valuable contribution to the "natural" vs "overcooked" image debate. Your differentiation between "poorly crafted photography and highly stylized work" is refreshing. Usually, folks that speak out against over-processed images are viewed as being anti post-processing in general. What's too often ignored is that some overly processed images are just plain "poorly crafted".

Some people seem to believe that visual exaggeration is a necessary aspect of photography. And that may just be a reflection of the time we live in. Hyper everything is in. We don't hear much soft music like ballads anymore. Here's to your health Willie Nelson!

And coming back to the OP's issue, maybe the cultural slant towards "hyper everything" hasn't settled in in Great Britain as much as it has in the U.S.

P-J Loc: UK

You clearly haven't been to the UK recently?

P-J Loc: UK

& hopefully it never will!

Bill P

Actually I visited England and Scotland about 20 years ago, so I suppose things could be different. Food in London was excepional. I was told that a Mayor of London put forth a plan to give assistance to skilled chef's from other countries to move to london and open restaurants that server good food. Many of those were Italian, and I visited a few that were as good as those in Italy. But don't get me started on what the average American thinks Italian food is that isn't.

But Haggis is another subject entirely. I assume it makes good food for pigs.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I understand that there are many cultural, differences between folks of different nationalities but I am reluctant to assign artistic perception and performance narrowly on that basis. One fact is that in many countries there are diverse cultures- not everyone comes from the same background and even folks from the same culture and upbringing don't all necessarily think and see alike and have the same visual perception.

I have always lived and worked (in photography) in cities with diverse populations and served clients from all manner of cultures. There can be differences in artistic/photographic taste within the same family and oftentimes there are vast differences from one neighborhood to the other- only a few city-blocks apart.

I understand that there are many cultural, differences between folks of different nationalities but I am reluctant to assign artistic perception and performance on that basis. One fact is that in many countries there are diverse cultures- not everyone comes from the same background and even folks from the same culture and upbringing don't necessarily think and see alike and have the same visual perception.

I have always lived and worked (in photography) in cities with diverse populations and served clients from all manner of cultures. There can be the difference in artistic/photographic taste within the same family and oftentimes there are vast differences from one neighborhood to the other- list a few city blocks apart- so I never lumped an entire city together as to taste, let alone an entire country. I find a great deal of humor in stereotyping. People say that Americans are flamboyant- some are, but I know plenty of American sticks in the mud! Folks say the Brits are reserved and conservative but I know quite a few really "crazy" ones!. Canadians are all supposed to all be polite and I can't tell you about many rude ones (I live in Canada). The only difference is when Canadians act like boors, they will apologize later- after they sober up!

Some years ago, at a Professional Photographers Association convention that I attended, at a seminar, there was an argument about the differences in color rendition between Kodak and Fuji film products. The Fuji side said that the Kodak materials were comparatively "brash and oversaturated whereas the Fuji products were more delicate, especially in terms of skin tones in portraiture- The Kodak side retorted that the Fuji products were were "too cold" The back and forth got kinda heated and finally the Fuji rep, (not of Asian extraction) blurted that "the Japanese were dealing with pigments and art while the Americas were still swinging around in trees"! Now- that was RUDE but I never laughed so hard in my life- I nearly hurt myself! Some would say that "much truth is said in jest" but my take on that comment is "it's not nice to call folks "stupid" but oftentimes foolishness is laughable"! humor in stereotyping. People say that Americans are flamboyant- some are but I know plenty of American sticks in the mud! Folks say the Brits are reserved and conservative but I know quite a few really "crazy" ones!. All Canadians are all supposed to be polite and I can't tell you about many rude ones (I live in Canada). The only difference is when Canadians act like boors, they will apologize later- after they sober up!

Some years ago, at a Professional Photographers Association convention, at a seminar on color printing, there was an argument about the differences in color rendition between Kodak and Fuji film products. The Fuji side said that the Kodak materials were comparatively "brash and over-saturated whereas the Fuji products were more delicate, especially in terms of skin tones in portraiture- The Kodak side retorted that the Fuji products were were "too cold" The back and forth got kinda heated and finally the Fuji rep, (not of Asian extraction) blurted that "the Japanese were dealing with pigments and art while the Americas were still swinging around in trees!. Now that was RUDE but I never laughed so hard in my life- I nearly hurt myself! Some would say that "much truth is said in jest" but my take on that comment is "it's not nice to call folks "stupid" but oftentimes foolishness is really laughable"!

2Much Loc: WA

Ireland, and not recently... and it was beautiful.

Whuff Loc: Marshalltown, Iowa

According to Google you are correct!!!

Walt