chrisscholbe Loc: Kansas City, MO

I believe I have.

If you feel differently, pleases restate your question.

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

I may be wrong but I seem to detect a bit of sarcasm in your comment. Not a problem. Perhaps you can show us where we are actually helping anyone achieve a better life. All welfare does for the majority of people especially those who have been on welfare for generations is to give them money. It doesn't train them to work at any job, doesn't teach them that there is bigger and better out there IF they find work and it sure doesn't teach them that working for oneself's own satisfaction is better than having the government just send a check.

I am all for welfare being a hand up but when it is used for years to support families who are able to support themselves then a cap should be imposed such as we will give you welfare for a certain length of time. After that you are on your own no matter what.

I can't speak for you personally but I can tell you that Democrats want people on the welfare plantation. Look up Star Parker. She will tell you the very same thing.

Dennis

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

I appreciate that and have no evidence to the contrary about you.

Dennis

chrisscholbe Loc: Kansas City, MO

I'm sorry. I thought we were discussing immigrants.

My bad.

My beliefs about welfare have already been stated.

There are a very few people who will likely never be able to get off welfare....mentally/physically handicapped.

All others should be weaned off welfare, thru job training etc.

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

No bad at all. I thought we were on welfare. But illegal aliens can fit the very same post too.

Maybe then you can tell us when your Democratic side will start supporting enforcement of the Federal law that says illegal aliens may not cross our border without specific approval. Surely you know that Democrats are actually encouraging illegal aliens to cross the border by telling them if they get here they will be given jobs, housing and free education up through college.

So far, even though every member of Congress has sworn an oath to support and defend the Constitution the Left side has gone against that oath numerous times with regard to encouraging illegal aliens to come to America, and by going against the 1st, 2nd and 4th Amendments. Do you support your Democratic side going against the Constitution they have sworn to defend?

Dennis

chrisscholbe Loc: Kansas City, MO

Sorry, this sounds so much like a ...When did you stop beating your wife kind of question.

I believe we have laws governing people showing up at our borders and asking for asylum.

Are "we" obeying all of those laws....? Doesn't appear that we are....IMHO.

I just reread the 1st, 2nd and 4th Amendments and don't see how they apply to immigration?

Is it your belief that ALL Conservative adhere 100% to the Constitution? and that it's only Liberals who
are breaking their oath?

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

Formalize the segregation the society by political beliefs is exactly what the left has done to our education system. From secondary education to colleges, the left has installed their progressive agenda not only discouraging but penalizing any dissension to their agenda. I am sure that you approve of this type of formalized segregation.

chrisscholbe Loc: Kansas City, MO

I do NOT.

How about this....

You don't tell me what I think/believe and I won't tell you what you think/believe.

OK?

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

We do have laws regarding asylum seekers. But of course every illegal alien coming across our border is not seeking asylum are they? Perhaps that is what the Liberals want to believe, all are coming here seeking asylum. But even common sense would dictate that is not true.

Those Amendments do not apply to immigration. Forgive me for making another point in my discussion against Liberals doing what they think is correct but which goes against either Federal law or the U.S. Constitution which they have all sworn to defend.

I am not sure now whether you are playing dumb (no offense meant) or honestly are not paying attention to what is happening on your side of the aisle. You might want to take a look at the attacks on those Amendments mentioned with regard to: Free speech is now deemed as hate speech by the Left. Frequent attacks on the 2nd Amendment by Liberals especially those running for POTUS, seizing property illegally per the 4th Amendment with regard to newly enacted Red Flag laws. This is what your Democrats are doing right now.

Dennis

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

Well I am glad to hear that, thank you.

chrisscholbe Loc: Kansas City, MO

1) Then shouldn't we be more responsive to the one's who are seeking asylum.

2) I do not consider trying to keep guns out of the hands of "crazy people" who massacre innocent people as an attack on the 2nd Amendment.

3) From this article https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2019/09/04/red-flag-laws-spur-debate-over-due-process
Seized firearms are displayed during a Los Angeles news conference in February. Seventeen states and the District of Columbia have passed red flag
laws, which allow courts to seize firearms from those who may harm themselves or others.

My problem with this is making sure that we don't get "carried away".
I do not have a problem with taking ."....firearms from those who may harm themselves or others.".
I do think that we need to be careful how we define these people.

sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri

As for the ladder and rope I don't necessarily disagree but do realize there are people out there that will build their own ladder to get up on that roof.

Dennis[/quote]

Dennis, with my way of thinking, you are absolutely correct. Actually in my analogy the fellow on the roof with the ladder to hand down built his own to get up there in the first place for he realized that a system of social welfare would only get him part way and he would forever be dependent on the person (government) holding the rope which they have no ability to pull everyone one down there all the way up...but they won't tell those on the ground that for they would no longer get their vote.

Welfare fraud is rampant and rather than police and prosecute it, it is easier to just let it happen and only catch an offender or so every so often to show that the government "has it under control". Unfortunately I know of many folks that could use the help and I also know far too many that are scamming the system to get a free ride. I personally know of folks that are on welfare or disability and physically do things that most healthy and fit men can't do. It is a sad state of affairs.

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

Show me where we are not being responsive to those seeking asylum. They come to our Border Patrol stations where asylum is looked into and then are processed. But many decide upon their own version of processing and just come across illegally. Many have attacked our Border Patrol employees. I don't know about you but that is not coming across legally. If someone wants to come into America and yet attacks one of our law enforcement officers before getting into the country do you even suggest that person should be allowed into America EVER?

There are already laws in place that deal with crazy people not being allowed to possess firearms. But how would you deal with someone who legally already owns firearms but then becomes insane? Do we keep firearms out of the hands of all Americans just in case a few may become insane? I don't think that is the correct answer do you? Are you aware that with all of the hoopla and hand wringing on the part of Democrats the amount of firearms deaths in America has been dropping steadily except for a few Democrat run cities such as Chicago, Detroit and Baltimore? Are you aware that criminals do not obey laws, that you on the Left can pass hundreds of more anti gun laws but not one of them will have any more power than the over 25,000 anti gun laws already on the books. Murder is against the law. So is rape, armed robbery, child molestation and bank robbery. So far as I am aware not one of these laws has ever stopped even one citizen who was intent on committing those crimes. You cannot name one law that has ever stopped someone from killing someone else. So what good are all of these laws except for the law abiding who provide no threat to society in the first place.

You are right to be aware of how we take firearms or any other property from citizens. Right now in those states you mentioned a disgruntled husband or wife is able to go to a LEO and complain that the spouse threatened him/her. Simply saying, I feel threatened because Dennis has a number of firearms and I don't know what he will do, may bring a number of LEO's to my door to confiscate my firearms when I actually present no threat at all nor have I ever threatened anybody. But getting my firearms back may prove impossible.

You don't mention the 1st Amendment. Maybe you should take a look at what your Democrats are up to. Free speech has long been the forefront of American freedoms. But these days when Conservatives speak out against the Liberals they will call it hate speech and tell us it should not be allowed. That my friend goes directly against the 1st Amendment guaranteeing free speech.

The 1st Amendment also guarantees freedom of religion as well as right to protest peacefully. But as you should well know religion is under attack in America both for Christians and now against Jews. Conservatives protesting peacefully are routinely beaten up by Antifa, a Democratic supported violent group.

Dennis

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

chrisscholbe Loc: Kansas City, MO

First of all, let's stop with the "your Democrats" business.
I agree with many things Democrats stand for and disagree with many things.....AS SHOULD ANY INTELLIGENT person do with ANY group they affiliate with.

I don't have the time/patience/vocabulary to conduit a discussion here where it's impossible to communicate the fine points that need to be made.
Unfortunately, I'm still working and I don't usually come here when I'm not at work.

So far, we deal in generalities and "when did you stop beating your wife" kinds of questions.

I'm happy for you, and anyone else, who is 100% always in agreement with whomever they affiliate with.

Generally, I enjoy the discussions here, sans the name calling etc.

IMHO, I don't believe our ports of entry are implementing the law in such a altruistic way.

If it were up to me AND I knew that no one would ever be hurt/killed by a gun....YES, I would take them away from everyone.
But, I DON'T know that, so that's not what I'm saying.
I'll be satisfied when they reach zero.

Tell me, with a straight face, that Conservatives aren't as intolerant of Liberals speech?
Trumps tweets don't seem to me to show a tolerance for Liberals speech.

Under other circumstances, I think you and I could have a great conversation...maybe not change each others views, but it could be a good conversation.

This medium doesn't promote that very well.