BillFeffer Loc: Adolphus, KY

There is no knob on the other side. We choose whether to open the door and let Him in..

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tommystrat Loc: Bigfork, Montana

And He will abide by our decision... what a glorious God we serve! Thanks for the cool image of the door and locks...

yssirk123 Loc: New Jersey

ronsipus Loc: Mission Viejo, CA

Great photo and words that could be life changing.

Bob Mevis Loc: Plymouth, Indiana

What a great image.

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

Except that that's not biblical.

1.) That passage isn't about offering salvation and you accepting or not.
2.) Salvation isn't that He offers it and then its up to you to do your part...He does the 99% and you do your 1% or whatever...that's not Biblical either.

Nice picture though.

BillFeffer Loc: Adolphus, KY

You are correct. Salvation is 100% His work. Even the faith to believe is a gift. This message was written for the Church not for/to unbelievers and is very relevant today. It is fully our choice to submit (open the door) our will to His. Even the sanctification process is His work, but without our submission it won't happen. That said, the door concept is still valid. No one comes unless they are drawn, but God never overrides the free will. The choice must be made. The gift is for everyone. His will is for none to perish. Not everyone will accept it. We could have a great discussion over the cheap grace offered today. I fear for so many who express belief in the work of Christ but lack the works (evidence) that it is real. Many live a life tied to the Vine, but not grafted in.

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

Which makes the post puzzling considering the comments that followed.



Yep.



That's where you are wrong. Both the salvation process and sanctification are God's work. The bible says that our works and our will are from Him.



Keep reading that passage about drawing in John 6 , it is the opposite of the idea of free will. There isn't a such thing as free will in all of scripture. Sure...we have a will, but it's an enslaved will and not free at all.



No argument there. Choices have to be made but as you said...the choice is God's choice.



Not at all. Keep reading that passage and ask yourself what the context is and who are the "none" being spoken of. It's not a salvation passage at all but the folks being referenced are believers...God's elect that have been disbursed.



I'll agree there.

But do read the entire 2nd Peter passage in context and ask yourself who is being addressed...contextually it cannot be "every one who ever lived or will ever live"..that's not biblical...it's "none of God's elect sheep"

BillFeffer Loc: Adolphus, KY

You are clearly of the Calvinist bent. Therefore we could endlessly debate. There are many passages used on both sides of the question which "prove" the point. Most are pulled out of the context of the whole Bible. A key to understanding is 1 Peter 1-2 Psalm 139:16 Acts 2:22-23. We are chosen by His foreknowledge. This thought is a consistent theme illustrated throughout the Bible. He knows every choice, decision action and thought before He "formed you in the womb". He is never surprised by anything. To ascribe to predestination is to say that I can live as I please. I'm either in or I'm out. My behavior is irrelevant. Why share my faith with my neighbor if his fate is predetermined? I do believe firmly in the security of salvation. The question is whether one is truly saved. Again, back to the question/problem of the easy believism cheap grace peddled today. God is gratified by our choice of Him. That is key to understanding why He gave us free will. Otherwise, we are no different from animals.

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

True though it shouldn't be that way, we should strive to honor scripture by doing our best exegesis.



I don't think that's entirely true. There are passages that one side or the other deem as "proof" but in my experience, the Arminian side usually ignores context.



Well..there are a lot of passages that speak to salvation and the mechanics of how it works....they must be considered.

I see you keyed in on His foreknowledge, there is a lot that could be said about that for sure but the idea that God chooses because he "sees what we'll do and acts accordingly" isn't even remotely biblical.



Of course He does but that doesn't override what specific passages talk about in context (like the 2nd Peter one you already cited; did you check the context?)



I can see by your statement that you don't know what Calvinism teaches at all. That's the issue, not Calvinism vs the opposite viewpoint, but "your-misunderstanding vs your opposite viewpoint." Neither of your statements are biblical at all.



1.) Because you are commanded to.
2.) Because God uses means to accomplish His ends.
3.) Because it's a privilege to do so.



I don't see why...if God won't "override a free will" then the same will that got you saved can unsave you. You can't have it both ways.



There isn't any such concept in the bible as "free will" that's a man-made concept that's not found anywhere. The KEY to understanding is to take the entire bible in context and in harmony.

Did you go check out 2nd Peter and John 6 to see if your statements about free will and God desiring to save all humans is true yet?

I think you should and then come back and say "ok...I see that I misinterpreted both passages on what they were addressing and who they were addressing...I stand corrected." 2nd Peter is about God's elect and John 6 is about why some will believe and some won't....and neither help your case in the least.

BillFeffer Loc: Adolphus, KY

We could debate endlessly as do more eminent theologians than I

rpavich Loc: West Virginia

Respectfully, that's a cop out. Can you see why this could be "endless"?

It's partially because you made a few statements and cited some passages and when called on them won't do the hard part which is to go back to the passages cited and read them carefully to see if what you say holds water.

For example; 2nd Peter 3:9 (a shortened summary of the passage context)

1.) The subject is about the second coming, not the scope of who's included in salvation...but be that as it may...
2.) The folks being written to are found in 1st Peter (read the salutation of 2nd peter and then go back to 1st Peter to see who's being addressed. It's the Elect of God.
3.) Because of the previous context the "us" "any" and "all" must refer to who? The elect of God! There is nothing at all in the passage that hints of anything else.

Move onto John 6: Jesus has tons of folks following Him after the miracle of the feeding of the 5000...they are asking how to be followers...they seem genuine...but what does Jesus tell them?

He tells them that they don't believe BECAUSE they aren't of HIS SHEEP. He explains it by saying that ALL that the Father gives to Jesus WILL COME and that they can never be cast out. So the REASON for their unbelief is that they aren't given by the father to the son for salvation. The ENTIRE BOOK of John continues in this vein..you can't hardly read a section without it coming up again and again.

So can you see why it's a debate? Not because there is careful exegesis on both sides and the passages are truly hard to interpret, it's because one side won't do the heavy lifting necessary.

photophile Loc: Lakewood, Ohio, USA

Well done Bill.