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Some Differences of Snapshots and Fine Art
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Aug 7, 2019 20:37:57   #
srt101fan
 
Lionsgate wrote:
According to Wikipedia this is the definition of "Fine-art Photography":
Fine-art photography is photography created in accordance with the vision of the artist as a photographer, using photography as a medium to bring something to life that only lives in the artist's mind. Simply capturing what one sees in an artistic way is the art of photography and not creating fine art. The goal of fine-art photography is to express an idea, a message, or an emotion. This stands in contrast to representational photography, such as photojournalism, which provides a documentary visual account of specific subjects and events, literally representing objective reality rather than the subjective intent of the photographer; and commercial photography, the primary focus of which is to advertise products or services.
According to Wikipedia this is the definition of &... (show quote)


Works for me!..... 😊

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Aug 7, 2019 20:47:51   #
User ID
 
ChrisRL wrote:
ncribble, hello!

I take your point and your thought - but if you simply cast your thoughts toward the other modernized art form that's become democratized in the last couple of decades, music, you can see that electronics or software has become a part of it, not apart from it.

In fact, no dissemination of any recorded music is possible without electronics, and thus the encroachment of software into the actual content of the music itself is a foregone conclusion and just a matter of time, taste and the flavor of the period.

Likewise, the idea of the black Leica framed print from a Focotar neg holder representing an un-cropped image, and thus what the photographer "intended to see in the frame" as an artist's choice, will become increasingly blurred over time. A lot of younger photographers put a black frame around a shot just 'cos it looks cool and OG, without realizing its original intent or meaning.

Also, please consider modern CGI shots in feature films. The motion picture industry increasingly uses digital effects, movements, backgrounds, and all the rest of arsenal to reproduce, supplement and enhance nature or super-nature.
Given that most CGI is a blend of computer-generated software powered imagery that's allied in some form or another with scene elements that are either supernatural or imaginary, isn't the artist who is conceptualizing that blend actually the same type of person that's composing music? MIDI, sampled or original? Isn't that why we call them concept artists and digital artists, rather than craftspeople or technicians?

That's a much clearer field of distinctiveness though, the field where shots are made, not taken. [That's specialized language, so permit me to explain what I mean:

To 'take' a shot, one starts with our existing universe (the real world, eg) and removes from one's frame all that one doesn't want to see. In this sense, this is a reductionist approach, like the documentary or non-fictional piece.

To 'make' a shot, one starts with am empty frame (white paper, studio background, blank digital screen, etc.) and only adds into the frame what one does want to see. This would be the synthesist's approach, like fiction books, or the movies.

One form isn't necessarily harder or easier than the other (witness my 80-something climbs up a mountain for a "snapshot"), and in both cases a camera is placed and a shot is taken, in much the same way as reality TV and docs are shot in similar styles - i.e. realistic-looking, like snapshots.]

But it should be obvious here a shot that's 'made'... must be made with intent.
If one starts with a blank piece of paper (and unless the blank paper itself is the intention), whatever mark is made on the paper cannot be attributed to accidentally being there at the time the shot was taken. Someone had to have made that mark, with or without intention, before the shot was taken.

Likewise, when a street shot of a beggar is taken, then obviously that beggar must have been there by some, more or less haphazard, intention.

However here is the distinction: in the 'taken' shot, the prior intention was not that of the photographer's. In the 'made' shot, it was. So if the photographer paid the beggar to be there, then that shot was made, not taken. The basic difference between documentary and reality content lies right here.

Put simply, when a shot that is 'taken', then anybody could have pressed the trigger and taken whatever the camera happened to be pointing at, at the moment the trigger was pressed. That feels more to me like a snapshot.

And of course, like jazz music or random/improvised art, the borders between the two can be blurred or merged.

But I don't think that was the OP's original intention.

So snapshots vs planned shots, made vs taken photos. Crafts v art. These to me are very different aspects of what we do.

Talking about shot quality, which underlies "art":

For me, a shot's quality is gauged on: emotion, lighting, texture, background, balance, movement, shape.
Those are the elements I was trained to examine after, and to be aware of prior to a shot.

And of course there's the "meh/interesting/I like it/I love it/Wow!" school of evaluation for each one of those elements, and how they combine into a single shot (or a moment in a movie).

Ultimately though, the definition of a fine art is "that which tends towards the point of view of a single human being." i.e. the fewer people involved (creative directors, producers, agents, managers, talent etc.), the finer the art.

Thus the finest arts are, traditionally: painting, writing, music composition, and/or some kind of derivative of those. But always executed by single people, on their own. And solely to their own muses.

The rest, especially by a professional team of "creative professionals", is not fine art. They're making money, not photos, movies, music, whatever, and likely or not their motivation is their paychecks, their careers, their bottom lines.

To me, and speaking about art, that isn't it. That's craft.
ncribble, hello! br br I take your point and your... (show quote)


I read your first line, one in the middle, one near the
end but I cannot figger out what you actually meant.
And acoarst I do care, and care deeply.

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Aug 7, 2019 20:58:18   #
User ID
 
Most of my snapshots are planned, usually
over quite a long time, 6 months, 2 years ...
Acoarst, that disqualifies them as snapshots.

And being disqualified snapshots means that
neither are they fine art. They're "coarse art"
or mebbe just "shots". Either way, many are
truly great photos, either by widely accepted
standards, or by narrowly rejected standards.
Most importantly, they stand on their own.

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Aug 7, 2019 21:28:43   #
rambler Loc: Masssachusetts
 
Take a snapshot, but make fine art.

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Aug 7, 2019 21:33:20   #
rambler Loc: Masssachusetts
 
Thank you E.L. Shapiro...Aug. 6th above in this thread

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Aug 7, 2019 21:35:33   #
Collhar Loc: New York City.
 
cascoly wrote:
"electronic programs" - do you mean software? post processing is as old as photography itself - hand tinting, burning and dodging, etc, etc - I guess ansel adams doesnt count as an artist


It's a picture. It's enhanced by a program or software that's a so what. It is a photograph. Ansel Adams was a photographer.

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Aug 7, 2019 21:49:56   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
Collhar wrote:
It's a picture. It's enhanced by a program or software that's a so what. It is a photograph. Ansel Adams was a photographer.


Paintings and drawings are also pictures. Photographs are the result of light acting on a light-sensitive material, whether film or an electronic sensor. Software never enhanced a photograph. It is a tool a photographer uses to enhance a photograph, just like the darkroom was a tool to enhance photographs.

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Aug 7, 2019 22:51:07   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
cascoly wrote:
no requirement for a story to have words - art history provides many examples - Goya, Breugel, nativity, as does music; for photography think of iconic images like Iwo Jima flag raising or Capa's Spanish Civil War pic

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Aug 7, 2019 23:31:31   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
A photograph presenting an iconic image cannot tell a story in the conventional sense, that of a written or spoken narrative. After all, photography functions as a wordless medium of human expression.

The word "story" as persistently used in relation to a photograph means at most that it conveys a visual message. In this respect, the photograph speaks with a visual voice to a viewer. This "voice" reaches the conscious awareness of the viewer via the mechanism of perception -- minus words.

The photograph of the Iwo Jima flag raising has two meanings, one without and one with words.
Standing alone, this image depicts soldiers together raising a flag. The conventions of Western civilization provide a context for understanding this action as the victor planting his flag. This result requires no words to understand it.

To become iconic, however, this photograph requires text (words) describing its significance after a battle to the death with 21,000 Japanese soldiers on a tiny island in the Pacific Ocean during WW II, a battle in which the U.S. Marines lost 7000 men. One could say that, yes, the flag signals victory, but it also surely honors the sacrifice of the U.S. fighting men there. We could even say more, that it recollects the honorable sacrifice of a formidable foe dying for his country.

Encapsulated in these words, the image of the flag raising indeed becomes part of a story.
cascoly wrote:
no requirement for a story to have words - art history provides many examples - Goya, Breugel, nativity, as does music; for photography think of iconic images like Iwo Jima flag raising or Capa's Spanish Civil War pic

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Aug 8, 2019 00:26:10   #
Vince68 Loc: Wappingers Falls, NY
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
I'm more concerned about the news the Nikon D500 has been discontinued ....


Paul,

My understanding of the article I read on the Nikon Rumors website was that there was no replacement model coming for the D500, not that the D500 was being discontinued. I could be wrong on that, and maybe my understanding of the article is not correct.

Thus, two other questions could be...

Is there a difference between no replacement model coming and being discontinued?

Is the current model still going to be in production?

I have not been keeping tabs on this, and therefore have not read any other articles since the first one.

Vinnie

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Aug 8, 2019 01:25:58   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
As I have stated here previously the best way to judge a photograph, whether considered as a snap shot or as fine art is within the four corners of the image itself. I think when most of us look at an image, if we do think about the process of making the picture that is not what lifts into the realm of art.

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Aug 8, 2019 07:00:14   #
danersmiff
 
boberic wrote:
So if you were to come upon an unplanned situation, such as a bird in flight while shooting a planned well thought out landscape, and that BIF shot is published in Nat Geo, it's just a snap shot? And the mediocre land scape shot is art? Pardon me if I am confused. It seems to me that ever photograph should be judged on it's own merit. Art, is undefinable


There is merit to this line of thought...
we have all, I think, done something very similar,
(aside from the nat geo thing)...

I've taken, and seen snapshots I blow off in a second...
there's other's that's made me stop and LOOK!
Same goes with artistic efforts...

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Aug 8, 2019 11:47:08   #
augieg27 Loc: Central California
 
Sometimes we take so much time with definitions and technicalities that we miss the joy of photography.

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Aug 8, 2019 17:19:24   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
tommystrat wrote:
Unless you make your living from photography, or are a true visionary such as Ansel Adams, the only photos that matter are the ones you think matter...


absolutely, and sometimes the ones we don't think matter when we take them, will in time, take on more meaning as the people, places and events that were captured by camera recede into the into the past.

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Aug 9, 2019 10:28:30   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
A photograph should stand alone and speak for itself, in visual terms.
RodeoMan wrote:
As I have stated here previously the best way to judge a photograph, whether considered as a snap shot or as fine art is within the four corners of the image itself. I think when most of us look at an image, if we do think about the process of making the picture that is not what lifts into the realm of art.

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