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Camera or lens upgrade?
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Jul 22, 2019 15:54:43   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Here are a couple comparisons at about 50 and 100 ft. The closer you get to the subject with a long focal length the shallower the DOF will be at a given aperture...

I suspect that some time spent playing with a DOF app might help the OP.

Ron 717 wrote:
You might want to try an Aperture of f8, it will give you a little bit more depth of field which might help to keep BIF in focus. I find that this works for me.


(Download)







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Jul 22, 2019 16:13:08   #
wetreed
 
Race Raccoon wrote:
There is no good reason your D7200 so equipped shouldn't do very well capturing your BIF shots. It has all the tools needed to do the job; one must commit to studying and working hard to learn how to use it. In Nikon's cropped frame world, only two upgrades exist, the D7500 & the D500. They're newer cameras & more capable than your D7200, but not enough that if you're experiencing difficulty w/your D7200, you'll likely have the same difficulty & dissatisfaction with either of the newer models. None of Nikon's upper echelon cameras can be used casually & easily unless they're shot in the scene modes, none of which are suitable for what you're attempting.
There is no good reason your D7200 so equipped sho... (show quote)


Just a fast note, the. Nikon D500 does not have science modes. Your point is valid, you have study up on your camera to get good results.

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Jul 22, 2019 16:27:30   #
Reconvic Loc: clermont Fl
 
From all the posts on your topic I can ascertain a few things: Many of these advice givers have never taken a decent BIF nor have used the cameras or lenses for birding, wildlife and especially BIRDS IN FLIGHT ! 1st you need to get a LOT closer to your subject physically and longer lens. The Tamron G2 600 comes in 1st and then the Sigma Sport (too heavy for me) and then the Nikkor 200-500. Golden Hour light to your back! Shutter speed minimum of 1/2500 and higher for smaller faster birds. As far as gear I would get a lens first and try it with the D7200. I used to get some good BIF shots with a D7100 and the Sigma 600C.
!

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Jul 22, 2019 16:27:52   #
ricardo00
 
grahamfourth wrote:
Thank you all for the helpful advice. I have attached two photos I took yesterday of a small green heron. The first is him perched on a structure. Not the greatest photo, but reasonably in focus. The next picture, a few seconds later, is after he took off. The heron's distance from me is almost the same as a moment earlier, yet the heron is completely out of focus. General conditions: Focal length - 300mm; Focus mode - AF-C; AF-Area mode - Dynamic, 9 points; VR on; Aperture - f/5.6; Shutter speed - 1/4000sec; Metering - Matrix; Exposure mode - Aperture Priority; ISO - 2000; Hi ISO NR - on.

When the lens tries to focus I hear a "mmm-mmm" sound of the lens trying to lock on to the subject. It almost always does correctly after a few seconds, so stationary subjects are fine, but if the subject is moving, its has difficulties.
Thank you all for the helpful advice. I have atta... (show quote)


Glad you added a picture to show what you meant (as well as the info on shooting). Can one assume these photos are not cropped? After reading the comments, you are probably very confused! The simple answer is that all 3 things suggested could increase the chances of getting a better BIF shot; improve your technique, get the D500 and/or get the 300mm f/4 lens. As someone who has the D7200 as well as the D500 and the 300mm pf lens, I would say that if you can get these used, maybe you could stretch your budget to get both? Baring that, I would say to get the 300mm PF lens. I used the D7100 and D7200 with better lenses than the one you have and have gotten decent BIF shots (see the one below with the D7100), so your lens could be the problem (I have never had that lens). The 300mm PF lens focusses quickly and is a very sharp lens.



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Jul 22, 2019 16:37:55   #
agillot
 
birds in flight with wings moving , 1/1000 or 2000 of a sec , iso up to 2000 if needed , lens at f8 or 11 for depth of field , also 500mm would be minimum so you dont have to crop too much .

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Jul 22, 2019 17:08:34   #
TylerDurdensReel Loc: Fresno Ca.
 
Maybe we should slow this thing down a little and ask a few questions and then try again.

1. What are your plans for your photography. I shoot for myself and family first and share a few here and there. I'm no pro and never will be because of guys like Steve Perry but I want to be the best I can possibly be.

2. What is your budget? You have a great camera and for wildlife, I haven't heard anyone complain that the D7200 is big and heavy. What is heavy is any of the three big zooms mentioned.

3. What version of the 70-300 lens are you shooting with now? The AF-P DX VR is without question one of the quickest lenses to focus of the three different versions of the 70-300 I have ever used.

Maybe you should answer question 2 first and then go from there.

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Jul 22, 2019 17:22:23   #
uhaas2009
 
I have the same lens and it started with a light bump when I was zooming. On the long run I go more and more focus errors. I did gave this lens to repair and now I love this lens.

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Jul 22, 2019 17:38:56   #
ricardo00
 
TylerDurdensReel wrote:
Maybe we should slow this thing down a little and ask a few questions and then try again.

1. What are your plans for your photography. I shoot for myself and family first and share a few here and there. I'm no pro and never will be because of guys like Steve Perry but I want to be the best I can possibly be.

2. What is your budget? You have a great camera and for wildlife, I haven't heard anyone complain that the D7200 is big and heavy. What is heavy is any of the three big zooms mentioned.

3. What version of the 70-300 lens are you shooting with now? The AF-P DX VR is without question one of the quickest lenses to focus of the three different versions of the 70-300 I have ever used.

Maybe you should answer question 2 first and then go from there.
Maybe we should slow this thing down a little and ... (show quote)


I think question 3 might be the first that the OP needs to answer. They have already indicated to some extent their budget by saying they were contemplating buying either a D500 (new $1,500) or a 300mm PF lens (new $2,000), but not both. The latter lens is only slightly heavier than the 70-300mm and more importantly, is a f/5.6 at 300mm versus the f/4 of the PF lens. Allowing twice as much light in will alone increase the speed of acquisition of focus.

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Jul 22, 2019 17:59:53   #
grahamfourth
 
First, thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond, I really appreciate your insights. As to the questions above,
1) I take pictures for the sheer enjoyment of both the challenge involved, and the opportunity to see a side of nature that I cannot otherwise see.
2) My budget is about $2K.
3) My version of the 70-300 is about 3-4 years old, it does have VR but is not the newer "P" style.

I have included below a copy of an instance where the BIF image actually did work reasonably well. The conditions of the camera and lens I think were similar. I think one big difference was the amount of light available in this image was much more than the first (further back in the discussion). Perhaps that is part of my problem, namely not appreciating the extent to which the amount of light available influences the quality of the autofocusing.

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Jul 22, 2019 18:23:01   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
grahamfourth wrote:
I use a Nikon D7200 and a 70-300mm AF-S lens for wildlife photography, especially BIF. The results have been fair at best, as either focus is not achieved quickly enough, or the background, not the bird, is selected as the focal point. I can either upgrade the camera or the lens, but I don’t have the money to do both. It seems like my best option is either moving up to a D500 or a 300mm f/4 PF. I have done much research on both, but real-world experience from more experienced photographers is always invaluable. Can anyone recommend the lens or the camera as the next logical upgrade? Thank you in advance.
I use a Nikon D7200 and a 70-300mm AF-S lens for w... (show quote)

I suspect it is expertise required rather than a new camera/lens combo!?

bwa

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Jul 22, 2019 18:28:20   #
ricardo00
 
grahamfourth wrote:
First, thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond, I really appreciate your insights. As to the questions above,
1) I take pictures for the sheer enjoyment of both the challenge involved, and the opportunity to see a side of nature that I cannot otherwise see.
2) My budget is about $2K.
3) My version of the 70-300 is about 3-4 years old, it does have VR but is not the newer "P" style.

I have included below a copy of an instance where the BIF image actually did work reasonably well. The conditions of the camera and lens I think were similar. I think one big difference was the amount of light available in this image was much more than the first (further back in the discussion). Perhaps that is part of my problem, namely not appreciating the extent to which the amount of light available influences the quality of the autofocusing.
First, thanks to everyone who has taken the time t... (show quote)


Not sure if it is me, but don't see the newer BIF shot you mention? But the amount of light available for focusing makes a huge difference. My 300mm f/2.8 lens still smokes any of my other lenses in acquiring focus, especially in low light. So a 300mm pf f/4 lens will be better than any version of the 70-300mm zooms because of this, again especially in low light. However the D500 is better a focussing in low light than a D7200.

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Jul 22, 2019 18:31:37   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
I’m assuming that the lenses you have and are considering focus wide open aperture. But I shoot canon and none of these lenses so I have no personal experience with them.

So a 300mm f/4 lens will have a full stop or twice the light to focus with compared to a 300mm lens that is f/5.6. That can be a factor if your camera doesn’t have the best focusing system and as the light is less and less. Good luck with your decision and future shooting.

grahamfourth wrote:
First, thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond, I really appreciate your insights. As to the questions above,
1) I take pictures for the sheer enjoyment of both the challenge involved, and the opportunity to see a side of nature that I cannot otherwise see.
2) My budget is about $2K.
3) My version of the 70-300 is about 3-4 years old, it does have VR but is not the newer "P" style.

I have included below a copy of an instance where the BIF image actually did work reasonably well. The conditions of the camera and lens I think were similar. I think one big difference was the amount of light available in this image was much more than the first (further back in the discussion). Perhaps that is part of my problem, namely not appreciating the extent to which the amount of light available influences the quality of the autofocusing.
First, thanks to everyone who has taken the time t... (show quote)

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Jul 22, 2019 18:31:54   #
grahamfourth
 
It did not attach properly - I will try again



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Jul 22, 2019 18:49:06   #
hookedupin2005 Loc: Northwestern New Mexico
 
grahamfourth wrote:
I use a Nikon D7200 and a 70-300mm AF-S lens for wildlife photography, especially BIF. The results have been fair at best, as either focus is not achieved quickly enough, or the background, not the bird, is selected as the focal point. I can either upgrade the camera or the lens, but I don’t have the money to do both. It seems like my best option is either moving up to a D500 or a 300mm f/4 PF. I have done much research on both, but real-world experience from more experienced photographers is always invaluable. Can anyone recommend the lens or the camera as the next logical upgrade? Thank you in advance.
I use a Nikon D7200 and a 70-300mm AF-S lens for w... (show quote)


Isn't the 70-300mm a "kit" lens? If so, I am sure you would see very dramatic results from a different lens(such as the 300mm f/4 PF).

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Jul 22, 2019 19:41:05   #
ricardo00
 
grahamfourth wrote:
It did not attach properly - I will try again


Is this picture cropped? What were your settings? (shutter speed, f, ISO

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