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Rules of Civility & Decent Behavior
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Jul 17, 2019 06:16:52   #
cbabcock
 
CWGordon wrote:
If there is one person out there who is nasty, disrespectful and
incredibly uncivil it is your cult leader. You may not AGREE with the Democrats, but they have tried to be tactful and courteous in their disagreement with the vitriol expressed by your cult leader. We doubt he even knows who George Washington is or how to spell his name. At best, he might think he has heard the guy is doing a good job.


Amen!

Reply
Jul 17, 2019 06:59:29   #
randave2001 Loc: Richmond
 
robertjerl wrote:
You are talking about an 18th Century man. The culture was different, the thinking was different and they were raised and lived their lives immersed in that culture and thinking. You cannot judge other times and places by your own modern thought. You can say something they thought and did is not right by our modern mores but you should not judge the people because they lived in and by the norms of their times.

And that culture did produce many great ideas, many of which we haven't even finished implementing today. It is still a work in progress. What counts is the "progress" part.
"That all men are created equal." They knew it wasn't a fact yet, it was a goal to work towards. They also knew it was not a statement of real equality in all things. It was an equality of the right to strive to the best of your ability. Equality of rights, not equality of results. Equality of results is an impossible idea. Would you care to go a round or two with the heavyweight boxing champion? That will prove that you and he are not equal physically and athletically but you do have the same rights.
You are talking about an 18th Century man. The cu... (show quote)



Reply
Jul 17, 2019 08:09:00   #
jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana
 
fantom wrote:
Further proof that Washington was a conservative right wing, racist, fascist and had no business being president. Thank goodness we are done with him and can rely on the bidens, peloosi's, aoc's and assorted socialists. We need to purge his name, and all writings and sayings from our records in accordance with with directives from our red russian inspired commie masters.


Hopefully, you are being sarcastic.

Reply
 
 
Jul 17, 2019 08:30:02   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
There are thousands of great rules and suggestions like that, dating back to the ancient Greeks. Unfortunately, hypocrisy is one of humanities strongest traits.

Reply
Jul 17, 2019 08:54:31   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein.

Reply
Jul 17, 2019 08:58:37   #
CWGordon
 
Are we saying that things done that were less than good by our leaders in tge past should be totally overlooked? Many still love Robert E Lee, yet he not only owned slaves, but was apparently brutal with them. Let us not forget he was a traitor to the United States. You wanna overlook that. People like Thomas Jefferson “freed” their slaves. Interestingly, only after their death did they free them. This would indicate they knew it was wrong, but chose to ignore it during their lifetimes. I do not believe we should ignore the significant contributions these and other Americans have made. The contributions they made were of note. Lee fought in Mexico along with Grant. Jefferson made huge contributions. However, I cannot forget what the negatives of these guys were. Lee, again, was a traitor and abuser of other human beings. Jefferson, somewhat hypocritical in that his writings said one thing, but his ownership of others said something entirely different. I attended Jefferson’s University, the University of Virginia. I was and am proud of that. He founded it and financed its’ origin. His ideas were brilliant.
I don’t hate Jefferson, but am aware of some of his faults. These were not the only two people who have mixed persona. Accepting that this was true does not mean I think we should forget their accomplishments and contributions. This leads me to the issue of statues for Confederate leaders that exist in many places. I saw no statues to Hitler in Germany or Mussolini during time in Italy. Maybe I missed some; I doubt it. They were in many ways traitors to their people. The leading officers of the Confederacy were actual traitors. I believe some were tried, convicted, and imprisoned. They fought against the United States. They stood for the subjugation of people by their actions. They are not heroes. The statues are not history from the Civil War era. They were made and erected during the “Jim Crow” era. They were placed as reminders that the Black people in our country should know their place and that there were still people around to keep them in their place. The Civil War, slavery, etc. are a part of History. If we really want or need to remember what some of these people did it should be in the writings of history. To honor them, treat these subjugators of others as heroes, and, in essence, worship their likenesses should never be acceptable to anyone. To deny this is to ignore this is to say the feelings of minorities simply do not matter. Imagine if your ancestors were slaves. How might you feel when you see a statue honoring people who fought to keep their ancestor enslaved? Do you think you’d like it? That these are often are erected near courthouses should convey the message there are different justice for different races. Is this really what we want to tell our fellow citizens? Some clearly would say yes. Can you say White Nationalist? Can you say closet racist or bigot. Few people believe or want to believe they are racist. Maybe it only comes out when they are in the voting booth.
We cannot grow together as a nation unless this festering sore of a philosophy is dead. It is of racism that I speak. There may be bad on both sides. There always are. However, we truly cannot honestly say there are good people on both sides. Can we?

Reply
Jul 17, 2019 08:59:24   #
George II Loc: Fayetteville, Georgia
 
robertjerl wrote:
You are talking about an 18th Century man. The culture was different, the thinking was different and they were raised and lived their lives immersed in that culture and thinking. You cannot judge other times and places by your own modern thought. You can say something they thought and did is not right by our modern mores but you should not judge the people because they lived in and by the norms of their times.

And that culture did produce many great ideas, many of which we haven't even finished implementing today. It is still a work in progress. What counts is the "progress" part.
"That all men are created equal." They knew it wasn't a fact yet, it was a goal to work towards. They also knew it was not a statement of real equality in all things. It was an equality of the right to strive to the best of your ability. Equality of rights, not equality of results. Equality of results is an impossible idea. Would you care to go a round or two with the heavyweight boxing champion? That will prove that you and he are not equal physically and athletically but you do have the same rights.
You are talking about an 18th Century man. The cu... (show quote)




Well said!

Reply
 
 
Jul 17, 2019 09:03:12   #
cbabcock
 
CWGordon wrote:
Are we saying that things done that were less than good by our leaders in tge past should be totally overlooked? Many still love Robert E Lee, yet he not only owned slaves, but was apparently brutal with them. Let us not forget he was a traitor to the United States. You wanna overlook that. People like Thomas Jefferson “freed” their slaves. Interestingly, only after their death did they free them. This would indicate they knew it was wrong, but chose to ignore it during their lifetimes. I do not believe we should ignore the significant contributions these and other Americans have made. The contributions they made were of note. Lee fought in Mexico along with Grant. Jefferson made huge contributions. However, I cannot forget what the negatives of these guys were. Lee, again, was a traitor and abuser of other human beings. Jefferson, somewhat hypocritical in that his writings said one thing, but his ownership of others said something entirely different. I attended Jefferson’s University, the University of Virginia. I was and am proud of that. He founded it and financed its’ origin. His ideas were brilliant.
I don’t hate Jefferson, but am aware of some of his faults. These were not the only two people who have mixed persona. Accepting that this was true does not mean I think we should forget their accomplishments and contributions. This leads me to the issue of statues for Confederate leaders that exist in many places. I saw no statues to Hitler in Germany or Mussolini during time in Italy. Maybe I missed some; I doubt it. They were in many ways traitors to their people. The leading officers of the Confederacy were actual traitors. I believe some were tried, convicted, and imprisoned. They fought against the United States. They stood for the subjugation of people by their actions. They are not heroes. The statues are not history from the Civil War era. They were made and erected during the “Jim Crow” era. They were placed as reminders that the Black people in our country should know their place and that there were still people around to keep them in their place. The Civil War, slavery, etc. are a part of History. If we really want or need to remember what some of these people did it should be in the writings of history. To honor them, treat these subjugators of others as heroes, and, in essence, worship their likenesses should never be acceptable to anyone. To deny this is to ignore this is to say the feelings of minorities simply do not matter. Imagine if your ancestors were slaves. How might you feel when you see a statue honoring people who fought to keep their ancestor enslaved? Do you think you’d like it? That these are often are erected near courthouses should convey the message there are different justice for different races. Is this really what we want to tell our fellow citizens? Some clearly would say yes. Can you say White Nationalist? Can you say closet racist or bigot. Few people believe or want to believe they are racist. Maybe it only comes out when they are in the voting booth.
We cannot grow together as a nation unless this festering sore of a philosophy is dead. It is of racism that I speak. There may be bad on both sides. There always are. However, we truly cannot honestly say there are good people on both sides. Can we?
Are we saying that things done that were less than... (show quote)


Thank you for your thoughtful contribution.

Reply
Jul 17, 2019 09:19:23   #
fantom Loc: Colorado
 
robertjerl wrote:
You are talking about an 18th Century man. The culture was different, the thinking was different and they were raised and lived their lives immersed in that culture and thinking. You cannot judge other times and places by your own modern thought. You can say something they thought and did is not right by our modern mores but you should not judge the people because they lived in and by the norms of their times.

And that culture did produce many great ideas, many of which we haven't even finished implementing today. It is still a work in progress. What counts is the "progress" part.
"That all men are created equal." They knew it wasn't a fact yet, it was a goal to work towards. They also knew it was not a statement of real equality in all things. It was an equality of the right to strive to the best of your ability. Equality of rights, not equality of results. Equality of results is an impossible idea. Would you care to go a round or two with the heavyweight boxing champion? That will prove that you and he are not equal physically and athletically but you do have the same rights.
You are talking about an 18th Century man. The cu... (show quote)


Excellent reply. It's a shame you have to answer a politically inspired comment, obviously written in ignorance, or merely just to make a "progressive" statement.

Reply
Jul 17, 2019 09:28:07   #
CWGordon
 
Thanks to those who recognize the need to answer some issues and were able to overlook my rather poor prose, numerous mistakes, and lack of timely proofreading. I see how some sentences were probably a bit confusing.

Reply
Jul 17, 2019 09:54:28   #
JeffL Loc: New Jersey
 
robertjerl wrote:
You are talking about an 18th Century man. The culture was different, the thinking was different and they were raised and lived their lives immersed in that culture and thinking. You cannot judge other times and places by your own modern thought. You can say something they thought and did is not right by our modern mores but you should not judge the people because they lived in and by the norms of their times.

And that culture did produce many great ideas, many of which we haven't even finished implementing today. It is still a work in progress. What counts is the "progress" part.
"That all men are created equal." They knew it wasn't a fact yet, it was a goal to work towards. They also knew it was not a statement of real equality in all things. It was an equality of the right to strive to the best of your ability. Equality of rights, not equality of results. Equality of results is an impossible idea. Would you care to go a round or two with the heavyweight boxing champion? That will prove that you and he are not equal physically and athletically but you do have the same rights.
You are talking about an 18th Century man. The cu... (show quote)


Beautifully stated! We live in a different time and culture. We can look back from our lofty perch and say it was horrible for the Egyptians to enslave Jews, it was a tragedy for Christians to be fed to the lions by the Romans, it was an abomination that the US Army used smallpox to kill native Americans, and it was morally reprehensible when Japanese-Americans were held in concentration camps during WWII. At a future date historians will consider the forced separation of families and the incarceration of children to be a low point in destruction of American values and morals. While Washington and the other founding fathers were not perfect human beings, they did give us a incredible Constitution upon which to build a nation. It is sad that the three branches of our current government are working so diligently to destroy it.

Reply
 
 
Jul 17, 2019 09:58:30   #
Bill 45
 
CWGordon wrote:
Are we saying that things done that were less than good by our leaders in tge past should be totally overlooked? Many still love Robert E Lee, yet he not only owned slaves, but was apparently brutal with them. Let us not forget he was a traitor to the United States. You wanna overlook that. People like Thomas Jefferson “freed” their slaves. Interestingly, only after their death did they free them. This would indicate they knew it was wrong, but chose to ignore it during their lifetimes. I do not believe we should ignore the significant contributions these and other Americans have made. The contributions they made were of note. Lee fought in Mexico along with Grant. Jefferson made huge contributions. However, I cannot forget what the negatives of these guys were. Lee, again, was a traitor and abuser of other human beings. Jefferson, somewhat hypocritical in that his writings said one thing, but his ownership of others said something entirely different. I attended Jefferson’s University, the University of Virginia. I was and am proud of that. He founded it and financed its’ origin. His ideas were brilliant.
I don’t hate Jefferson, but am aware of some of his faults. These were not the only two people who have mixed persona. Accepting that this was true does not mean I think we should forget their accomplishments and contributions. This leads me to the issue of statues for Confederate leaders that exist in many places. I saw no statues to Hitler in Germany or Mussolini during time in Italy. Maybe I missed some; I doubt it. They were in many ways traitors to their people. The leading officers of the Confederacy were actual traitors. I believe some were tried, convicted, and imprisoned. They fought against the United States. They stood for the subjugation of people by their actions. They are not heroes. The statues are not history from the Civil War era. They were made and erected during the “Jim Crow” era. They were placed as reminders that the Black people in our country should know their place and that there were still people around to keep them in their place. The Civil War, slavery, etc. are a part of History. If we really want or need to remember what some of these people did it should be in the writings of history. To honor them, treat these subjugators of others as heroes, and, in essence, worship their likenesses should never be acceptable to anyone. To deny this is to ignore this is to say the feelings of minorities simply do not matter. Imagine if your ancestors were slaves. How might you feel when you see a statue honoring people who fought to keep their ancestor enslaved? Do you think you’d like it? That these are often are erected near courthouses should convey the message there are different justice for different races. Is this really what we want to tell our fellow citizens? Some clearly would say yes. Can you say White Nationalist? Can you say closet racist or bigot. Few people believe or want to believe they are racist. Maybe it only comes out when they are in the voting booth.
We cannot grow together as a nation unless this festering sore of a philosophy is dead. It is of racism that I speak. There may be bad on both sides. There always are. However, we truly cannot honestly say there are good people on both sides. Can we?
Are we saying that things done that were less than... (show quote)


Well said. It has taking 150 years but it about time the South live up to the fact it lose that war and it time to pay up.

Reply
Jul 17, 2019 09:59:29   #
digit-up Loc: Flushing, Michigan
 
CWGordon wrote:
I am unsure as to what y’all are trying to show here. It sounds like most of this is probably pretty stupid stuff w/o any real reason for its’ publishing!


Seems that you could use a little edgikation from the afore-mentioned postings. ...RJM

Reply
Jul 17, 2019 10:10:07   #
retiredsgt Loc: Red Lion Pa.
 
Washington was our GREATEST PRESIDENT! Because he WAS PRESIDENT. A majority of his generals wanted him to be a King, so the country could be united after the recent war. BUT...….

Reply
Jul 17, 2019 10:15:03   #
StanMac Loc: Tennessee
 
CWGordon wrote:
If there is one person out there who is nasty, disrespectful and
incredibly uncivil it is your cult leader. You may not AGREE with the Democrats, but they have tried to be tactful and courteous in their disagreement with the vitriol expressed by your cult leader. We doubt he even knows who George Washington is or how to spell his name. At best, he might think he has heard the guy is doing a good job.


Great and truthful words, CW,

Stan

Reply
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