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Why does everyone think a crop sensor increases focal length
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May 4, 2019 06:31:00   #
WJShaheen Loc: Gold Canyon, AZ
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
You have been here long enough to know better than to insert politics into discussions. Take it to the Attic.

Mike



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May 4, 2019 06:36:12   #
wmurnahan Loc: Bloomington IN
 
Juy wrote:
I see and hear all the time that if you have a so called crop sensor you have more reach or magnification with a given lens.
From everything I have read or appear to understand, this is not the case. The thing that changes is the field of view. The object or subject does not get anymore magnification nor enlargement you simple get a narrower field of view.
Yes when compared to a full frame sensor the crop appears just that a crop of the full frame.
Am I wrong in my thinking ? It just gets me that people keep posting my 600mm has an effective focal length of 860mm leading everyone to believe you have greater reach.
I see and hear all the time that if you have a so ... (show quote)


I have two digital bodies, both have the same megapixal count. one is full frame, one is crop. If I take a picture with both, they both can be blown up to the same print size. Shots on the crop will give me more reach and effectively give me a bigger lens.

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May 4, 2019 06:51:08   #
cdayton
 
Deja vu all over again. Besides, when I show someone a close-up photo of a bird taken from 300 yards away with my P900 and say I shot at 357mm it confuses them!

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May 4, 2019 06:55:17   #
David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
 
I think the critical issue is the number of pixels available. If the crop sensor has the same number of pixels as the full-frame sensor, the amount of detail captured by each is the same, but the crop sensor image will encompass a smaller angle of view. The image from the crop sensor would be equivalent to that of the full-frame sensor using a longer focal length lens. The "crop factor" was invented to provide a quick way for those using a crop sensor camera to estimate the effect of using a lens on that camera as compared to a "normal" 35mm camera. I personally find it a convenient concept, to know that a 50mm lens on a DX camera will yield an image the equivalent of a 75mm lens on a full-frame camera. Having used full-frame 35mm cameras for many years, I am accustomed to thinking of image coverage by various focal lengths in those terms and the crop factor enables me to conveniently go between sizes.

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May 4, 2019 07:03:49   #
Howard5252 Loc: New York / Florida (now)
 
Crop it in PP or crop it in the camera - either way, it's just a crop.

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May 4, 2019 07:11:22   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Juy wrote:
I see and hear all the time that if you have a so called crop sensor you have more reach or magnification with a given lens.
From everything I have read or appear to understand, this is not the case. The thing that changes is the field of view. The object or subject does not get anymore magnification nor enlargement you simple get a narrower field of view.
Yes when compared to a full frame sensor the crop appears just that a crop of the full frame.
Am I wrong in my thinking ? It just gets me that people keep posting my 600mm has an effective focal length of 860mm leading everyone to believe you have greater reach.
I see and hear all the time that if you have a so ... (show quote)


Yes, EFFECTIVE FOCAL length. And, from the same distance, if you used both full frame and cropped sensor camera's on the same bird in flight or animal, and using the same lens, you would put more EFFECTIVE MEGAPIXELS on the subject with a cropped sensor than with a full frame camera. Which, would result in a sharper enlargement. Provided that both the full frame and cropped sensor camera's had the same or close megapixel count.

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May 4, 2019 07:13:25   #
foathog Loc: Greensboro, NC
 
EVERYONE?????





Juy wrote:
I see and hear all the time that if you have a so called crop sensor you have more reach or magnification with a given lens.
From everything I have read or appear to understand, this is not the case. The thing that changes is the field of view. The object or subject does not get anymore magnification nor enlargement you simple get a narrower field of view.
Yes when compared to a full frame sensor the crop appears just that a crop of the full frame.
Am I wrong in my thinking ? It just gets me that people keep posting my 600mm has an effective focal length of 860mm leading everyone to believe you have greater reach.
I see and hear all the time that if you have a so ... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
May 4, 2019 07:21:27   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
foathog wrote:
EVERYONE?????

Not all.....

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May 4, 2019 07:23:06   #
cdayton
 
Howard5252 wrote:
Crop it in PP or crop it in the camera - either way, it's just a crop.


Not really - you’re ignoring the pixel count.

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May 4, 2019 07:26:29   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Does it not really depend on the density of the sensor. If I push your logic to so small that it only has one photosite on the sensor it will not capture more detail...

Bobspez wrote:
In my experience, when an object fills more of the frame on a smaller sensor, the camera captures more detail. Maybe the autofocus is more accurate, but for whatever reason, this seems to be the outcome. I have experimented using the same lens and target and distance and settings with a FF, DX, and CX sensor, and the smaller the sensor, the more detail is captured. The DX captures more detail than the FX, and the CX captures the most detail when the images are cropped to the same view in post processing. The equivalent focal lengths for the three sensors with a 300mm lens are 300mm, 450mm and 810mm respectively. I've found this to be true with birds, with a small flag stuck in the grass and with the full moon.
In my experience, when an object fills more of the... (show quote)

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May 4, 2019 07:38:27   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
cdayton wrote:
Not really - you’re ignoring the pixel count.


What if I'm not worried about pixel count, just image rendition difference?

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May 4, 2019 07:43:57   #
Juy Loc: Delaware
 
I thank you all for your responses, very interesting and enlightening read.
Some spot on to my thinking and some off on their own tangent.
Again some very good info shared and some enlightenment.
So I'm wrong but I'm right there are varibales and there are perspectives

I really didn't think this post would generate this much response, glad it did as it has given me a broader understanding
So lets put it to rest for this round
Thanks all

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May 4, 2019 07:54:48   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Juy wrote:
I see and hear all the time that if you have a so called crop sensor you have more reach or magnification with a given lens.
From everything I have read or appear to understand, this is not the case. The thing that changes is the field of view. The object or subject does not get anymore magnification nor enlargement you simple get a narrower field of view.
Yes when compared to a full frame sensor the crop appears just that a crop of the full frame.
Am I wrong in my thinking ? It just gets me that people keep posting my 600mm has an effective focal length of 860mm leading everyone to believe you have greater reach.
I see and hear all the time that if you have a so ... (show quote)


So 80mm is wide angle and 24 x36 is a crop faking you out thinking you are getting more reach.

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May 4, 2019 07:55:27   #
rond-photography Loc: Connecticut
 
Juy wrote:
I see and hear all the time that if you have a so called crop sensor you have more reach or magnification with a given lens.
From everything I have read or appear to understand, this is not the case. The thing that changes is the field of view. The object or subject does not get anymore magnification nor enlargement you simple get a narrower field of view.
Yes when compared to a full frame sensor the crop appears just that a crop of the full frame.
Am I wrong in my thinking ? It just gets me that people keep posting my 600mm has an effective focal length of 860mm leading everyone to believe you have greater reach.
I see and hear all the time that if you have a so ... (show quote)


Odd that we spend so much time obsessing on this. It is not a new concept. We just didn't think about it when the 35MM camera was invented. Here are the focal length equivalents from 35MM compared to 4X5 and 8X10 cameras. Put a 135MM lens on your FF camera and you have the equivalent of a 900MM on a larger camera. Same concept putting a 135MM on your 4/3 camera, just a different calculation.

Approximate equivalents of lens focal length
35mm 4x5 8x10
20mm 65mm 120mm
24mm 75mm 155mm
28mm 90mm 200mm
35mm 115mm 240mm
45mm 150mm 300mm
52mm 180mm 360mm
63mm 210mm 420mm
90mm 300mm 600mm
105mm 360mm 720mm
135mm 480mm 900mm

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May 4, 2019 07:55:33   #
mas24 Loc: Southern CA
 
Yes, the myth about crop sensor cameras, is that your lens changes to a different focal range. A 50mm prime lens is still a 50mm, regardless if it is used on a crop or full frame sensor camera. The field of view is only the difference. A 1.5X factor on a Nikon, and a 1.6X factor on a Canon.

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