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copyright/watermark/ticked off......ADVICE??
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Aug 31, 2012 00:06:33   #
sdemaagd Loc: Michigan
 
I figured...I do believe I have that the client cannot sell the images...but I don't think I have anything about not sharing with others (for a non-commercial reason)---I'll have to double-check...but yes, I think you're right; unless I want to register all my photos and pay a lawyer, it's not worth pursuing unless it's a big company or something...

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Aug 31, 2012 02:07:58   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
Did she just remove your signature, or did she also remove the copyright symbol or the word"copyright"? There is a clear distinction under the law.

Also, were you aware of FB's policies regarding material posted on their website?

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Aug 31, 2012 05:28:08   #
RajStudios
 
I don't think she intentionally tried to "rob you of credit" or even know that would upset you if she reorganized the pictures. I'm sure she'd credit you the way you want and even tag you if you just asked her.

I wouldn't like it either but she didn't have the intent of robbing you of credit. However, I think it would have been common courtesy to tag your FULL name and website.

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Aug 31, 2012 05:37:56   #
katbandit Loc: new york city
 
CaptainC wrote:
Here is the problem- once you let digital files out of your control you can kiss your copyright goodbye. Sure, you still own the copyright, but enforcing it against any infringement by the public is impossible from a practical standpoint. If General Motors used an image, that would be worth pursuing, but even then, unless you registered the image with the government, getting a lawyer to take the case would be futile.

Do you have in your contract that the bride will not share/sell/transfer the images to a third party?

We have to rely on people following the rules and if they don't. Well....they don't. You need to charge enough for any digital file that you don't care what they do with it. It is just the way it is.
Here is the problem- once you let digital files ou... (show quote)

I agree..I copyright my photos also..most of my friends like my logo on the photos..they feel like its a signature on a painting..however. I tell them if they want it without the logo just let me know and I will remove it myself..once you give over your photos it is theirs and if they remove the copyright mark how can you really stop them ? Besides they aren't usually doing it for money just for appearances..if it were a huge company that stole your photos then I would worry..not some wedding shots on Facebook where most folks just look at them..if they print them the quality isn't so great anyway..

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Aug 31, 2012 05:38:10   #
mafadecay Loc: Wales UK
 
wtompkins wrote:
You have a right to be ticked; I would be, too!
Have you said anything to her about it?

I took some newborn pics of my nieces baby, and my stepdaughter then took it and made an ugly "instagram" photo with it. Both myself and the niece were upset. I've since added a tag to my posts, along the lines of :"tag and share all you want, but do not alter the image or remove my logo."


I've done things like this but not many people actually read the tags.

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Aug 31, 2012 05:54:59   #
LaughBrian Loc: Tn
 
LouEllen wrote:
Regardless, I am a bit ticked off. If I went to the trouble to mark them with a signature, it should be very obvious that I don't want her to turn right around and remove that signature. You are right, though, about me not making myself clear. I thought since she is a friend that I wouldn't have this issue. As for getting an attorney, I'm not that upset. I took for her and her husband. The rest will be posted to my own site first, then she can post and I will definitely be telling her I do not want my signature removed from the photos.

And, yes, I will be coming up with a contract prior to any more photo shoots. But I will be starting the business. I have successfully run a business for many years. It just wasn't photography-related.

After I posted here, I discussed this issue with my husband and told him I am a bit ticked, but mostly glad it happened now so I know what not to do in the future. You see, I do learn from my mistakes.

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

Lou Ellen

Personally, I don't think you have any reason to be "ticked-off". You gave her permission to post your pics on FB. If you expected more, then you should have outlined it more clearly. Tell her she can only post if your full name is clearly visible somewhere. If you told her this, then ask her why she didn't, then ask her to remove them from FB and tell her she cannot use them again. You don't need a watermark to enforce copyright; you just need a good lawyer.

To me, it doesn't sound like you are quite ready to go into business. You might have the photography skills, but there is a huge part of owning your own business that is not easily learned. Use this as a learning experience. Take your emotion out of things next time. Clearly write down your expectations and have your clients sign that they understand them. Good luck.
Regardless, I am a bit ticked off. If I went to t... (show quote)
[/quote]

well that mark may look good to you. but to her it ment nothing and was in the way. you have to let people know what you want. and being you did it for free it holds no value to her,

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Aug 31, 2012 07:33:12   #
George H Loc: Brooklyn, New York
 
LouEllen wrote:
I am in the process of trying to start a photography business. I've taken several classes over the past year, invested a good amount of money into this endeavor, and have seen my skills improve dramatically.

So.... I offered to take my granddaughter's senior pics free of charge. That went really well. Then I offered to take some maternity shots for someone (also free of charge). I did this to get some practice.

Here's what has me a wee bit ticked: I sent a preview of about 6 photos to the pregnant woman. She loved them and thanked me profusely. That's great! Then, she asked if she could share them on Facebook. Of course! (You know, I can use the recognition). So.... she combined 3 or 4 shots into one 'frame' and COMPLETELY REMOVED MY SIGNATURE! She did mention me in the post, but only by first name, and thanked me.

Am I being a little too sensitive here? I don't mind her sharing the photos. Not at all. I just don't like the fact that she took the liberty of removing my signature and cropping the photos to fit her frame.

I think I will be watermarking all future Facebook postings. But in the meantime, I am a bit ticked.

Lou Ellen
I am in the process of trying to start a photograp... (show quote)


Welcome to the Professional end of photography. You asked for this, you don't do anything for free if you do, it is your responsibility when things go wrong.

George

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Aug 31, 2012 09:26:58   #
sportyman140 Loc: Juliette, GA
 
First off I would never remove your watermark, second If you set up you meta data then it should be in there. The fact you told her it was ok to do this you should not be ticked off so to speak

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Aug 31, 2012 09:32:58   #
skidooman Loc: Minnesota
 
CaptainC wrote:
Here is the problem- once you let digital files out of your control you can kiss your copyright goodbye. Sure, you still own the copyright, but enforcing it against any infringement by the public is impossible from a practical standpoint. If General Motors used an image, that would be worth pursuing, but even then, unless you registered the image with the government, getting a lawyer to take the case would be futile.

Do you have in your contract that the bride will not share/sell/transfer the images to a third party?


We have to rely on people following the rules and if they don't. Well....they don't. You need to charge enough for any digital file that you don't care what they do with it. It is just the way it is.
Here is the problem- once you let digital files ou... (show quote)


Yep. 'Nuff said. :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Aug 31, 2012 10:02:16   #
jimni2001 Loc: Sierra Vista, Arizona, USA
 
As CaptainC Said once you put it out there it is gone. Anything that I put out there that I believe could be of value commercially I crop. As I shoot raw and then crop, it would be relatively easy to prove in a court that the photo was mine. I have had a couple of mine stolen and used commercially but never by anyone big enough to make it worth going to court over. Most people will cease if asked in the right manner.

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Aug 31, 2012 10:37:05   #
dwrcymru Loc: North Wales, UK
 
The easiest way I found to deal with this kind of situation was to have the customer sign a contract that states something like this:

You may post the images on any social network on the following conditions:

(1) .. You include my details with each image posted.
(2) .. If the images are altered in any way before being posted on a social network (or posted on any sharing network) you will be responsible for the sum of $XX.XX for each "like".

You could expand on this of course, but then you will have to keep track and be a "friend".

Sounds harsh, but if you want your "freebies" to advertise your skills then the condition they are "free" should state they are willing to promote your professionalism.

Dave

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Aug 31, 2012 11:13:38   #
Bozsik Loc: Orangevale, California
 
Let it go. Sounds like you learned from the mistake.

As for copyright, the law was changed in the late 70's/ early 80's. Anything you take is copyrighted. You don't have to file a copyright. If you have a very special image such as: Mt St. Hellens erupting, plane flying into the two towers, etc., it is better to have those copyrighted by the the government. Just gives you more solid ground to stand on.

As was said before, unless it is a company obtaining monetary gain from the image, it isn't worth the trouble.

I received $7600.00 from a company because their art director used several images of mine without obtaining a release. The president of the company had a check for me posted overnight express the next day.

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Aug 31, 2012 11:46:33   #
CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver
 
Bozsik wrote:
Let it go. Sounds like you learned from the mistake.

As for copyright, the law was changed in the late 70's/ early 80's. Anything you take is copyrighted. You don't have to file a copyright. If you have a very special image such as: Mt St. Hellens erupting, plane flying into the two towers, etc., it is better to have those copyrighted by the the government. Just gives you more solid ground to stand on.

As was said before, unless it is a company obtaining monetary gain from the image, it isn't worth the trouble.
Let it go. Sounds like you learned from the mistak... (show quote)


Just to clarify - you do not have to register to own the copyright, but you DO have to file it in order to pursue punitive/damages. Without that registration, all you can sue for is what you would have been paid for the use of the images.

In fact, if you did want to sue, the first question virtually any intellectual property lawyer would ask is. "Did you register this image?" Without the registration, it is not worth the time to sue.

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Aug 31, 2012 12:23:20   #
ole sarg Loc: south florida
 
Capt you have nailed it.

Most folks don't realize the importance of a contract. That for a contract to be valid some means of exchange has to change hands.

Give something away and it is the property of the person you gave it to.

Have a great weekend.

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Aug 31, 2012 12:27:42   #
Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA
 
As I read this I understand this was not for financial gain or proclaimed to be their own works - just posting a photo you gave her.
Get over it - they meant no harm.

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