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A question to all you Focus stacking people.
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Mar 30, 2019 08:49:22   #
melueth Loc: Central Florida
 
Gene51 wrote:
Shooting raw won't hurt, especially if you have wide dynamic range.

I simply start at the distance closest to the camera and focus slightly closer, then advance focus until I get to the farthest distance, then an extra shot beyond the farthest point for insurance.

At 20" your depth of field is 1/3 inch, so if you are a little conservative, I would use 1/6 in with the understanding that at 23" your DoF is .48", which would prompt me to use 1/4" increments.

This is all much easier if you use live view and eyeball it. You'll be surprised at how accurate that really is.

Also, On1 Photo Raw looks promising - it allows you to visually "select" your desired depth of field from your sequence using sliders. It's not quite ready for prime time, though. I am waiting for when they provide access to the layer masks, important for when you need to fine tune a mask to make it look right.

.
Shooting raw won't hurt, especially if you have wi... (show quote)


Beautiful and informative - as usual!!

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Mar 30, 2019 09:13:09   #
cactuspic Loc: Dallas, TX
 
As has been mentioned, at closeup magnifications (1:2 to 1:4 magnification ratio) the number of shots required is a function of three variables: f/stop, magnification, and depth of the area of subject you want in focus. Briefly, magnification ratio is just a comparison between the size of the image on the sensor to the actual size of the subject. For example if the subject is 1" on my 1 3/8ths inch full frame sensor, and subject measures three inches across, then the magnification ratio is 1:3 sometimes expressed as 1/3 life size. Before taking a real stack, I recommend practicing taking as tiny a focus advance as you can uniformly turn. Practice for a few minutes trying to make small uniform turns on the focus ring.

Use live view if using a DSLR. On many current DSLR, live view locks the mirror up and also starts the shutter electronically so there is no mirror slap or movement caused the shutter slamming open. Using live view will show your progress as you focus through your subject. Gene had it entirely right. Rather than worry about how many shots, just start just before the nearest point you want in focus, then shoot, then make your uniform turns, then shoot again, and continue until the last point you want in focus has been passed. You will be able to see the progress in your live view display.

After you have completed the sequence, use your software to compile the image. I use Zerene Stacker but there are many choices. If you see banding in your final copy you will have to make your uniform steps smaller. But the main thing...try it. It is a fun process and the results speak for themselves. I have attached several this weeks stacks for your review. (edited for typos)


(Download)


(Download)


(Download)


(Download)

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Mar 30, 2019 09:35:38   #
wham121736 Loc: Long Island, New York
 
RWR wrote:
Divide the subject size by the image size. Say the subject is 72mm (2.835") wide and your sensor is 36mm. 72 ÷ 36 = 2. The reproduction ratio is 1:2. The attached depth of field chart is based on the ratio. Divide the subject’s depth by the DOF to determine the number of exposures needed for focus stacking. In this example the total DOF at 1:2 and f/8.0 is .126". For a 3" deep shot, you would need at least 24 exposures, double that for a 50% overlap.
There is no mention of subject distance or focal length in the chart because neither have any bearing on depth of field - you’ll need the same number of exposures regardless. You can move in close with a 50mm lens or move back with a 200mm lens, and as long as you maintain the same ratio the DOF will be the same. You may see for yourself here: https://www.photopills.com/calculators/dof-macro.
Divide the subject size by the image size. Say the... (show quote)


I would like to try this but I don't fully understand? Maybe I'm dense, but how do you get that the total DOF is 0.126? What am I missing? Thanks for your patience.

Reply
 
 
Mar 30, 2019 09:40:44   #
wham121736 Loc: Long Island, New York
 
RWR wrote:
Divide the subject size by the image size. Say the subject is 72mm (2.835") wide and your sensor is 36mm. 72 ÷ 36 = 2. The reproduction ratio is 1:2. The attached depth of field chart is based on the ratio. Divide the subject’s depth by the DOF to determine the number of exposures needed for focus stacking. In this example the total DOF at 1:2 and f/8.0 is .126". For a 3" deep shot, you would need at least 24 exposures, double that for a 50% overlap.
There is no mention of subject distance or focal length in the chart because neither have any bearing on depth of field - you’ll need the same number of exposures regardless. You can move in close with a 50mm lens or move back with a 200mm lens, and as long as you maintain the same ratio the DOF will be the same. You may see for yourself here: https://www.photopills.com/calculators/dof-macro.
Divide the subject size by the image size. Say the... (show quote)


I would like to try this but I don't fully understand? Maybe I'm dense, but how do you get that the total DOF is 0.126? What am I missing? Thanks for your patience.

Reply
Mar 30, 2019 10:16:17   #
BlueMorel Loc: Southwest Michigan
 
Gene51 wrote:
Shooting raw won't hurt, especially if you have wide dynamic range.

I simply start at the distance closest to the camera and focus slightly closer, then advance focus until I get to the farthest distance, then an extra shot beyond the farthest point for insurance.

At 20" your depth of field is 1/3 inch, so if you are a little conservative, I would use 1/6 in with the understanding that at 23" your DoF is .48", which would prompt me to use 1/4" increments.

This is all much easier if you use live view and eyeball it. You'll be surprised at how accurate that really is.

Also, On1 Photo Raw looks promising - it allows you to visually "select" your desired depth of field from your sequence using sliders. It's not quite ready for prime time, though. I am waiting for when they provide access to the layer masks, important for when you need to fine tune a mask to make it look right.

.
Shooting raw won't hurt, especially if you have wi... (show quote)


Wow, Gene! Great photos and easily understood explanation of technique for those of us still standing on the sidelines. Thanks for both!

Reply
Mar 30, 2019 11:01:28   #
Millismote Loc: Massachusetts
 
great pictures, how do you combine the series of photos into one?

Reply
Mar 30, 2019 11:13:10   #
RWR Loc: La Mesa, CA
 
wham121736 wrote:
I would like to try this but I don't fully understand? Maybe I'm dense, but how do you get that the total DOF is 0.126? What am I missing? Thanks for your patience.

Go down the left-hand column to 1:2, then right to the f/8.0 column, and you’re there.

Reply
 
 
Mar 30, 2019 13:31:29   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
Gene51 wrote:
Shooting raw won't hurt, especially if you have wide dynamic range.

I simply start at the distance closest to the camera and focus slightly closer, then advance focus until I get to the farthest distance, then an extra shot beyond the farthest point for insurance.

At 20" your depth of field is 1/3 inch, so if you are a little conservative, I would use 1/6 in with the understanding that at 23" your DoF is .48", which would prompt me to use 1/4" increments.

This is all much easier if you use live view and eyeball it. You'll be surprised at how accurate that really is.

Also, On1 Photo Raw looks promising - it allows you to visually "select" your desired depth of field from your sequence using sliders. It's not quite ready for prime time, though. I am waiting for when they provide access to the layer masks, important for when you need to fine tune a mask to make it look right.

.
Shooting raw won't hurt, especially if you have wi... (show quote)


Those are beautiful Gene.



Mike

Reply
Mar 30, 2019 13:35:58   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
cactuspic wrote:
As has been mentioned, at closeup magnifications (1:2 to 1:4 magnification ratio) the number of shots required is a function of three variables: f/stop, magnification, and depth of the area of subject you want in focus. Briefly, magnification ratio is just a comparison between the size of the image on the sensor to the actual size of the subject. For example if the subject is 1" on my 1 3/8ths inch full frame sensor, and subject measures three inches across, then the magnification ratio is 1:3 sometimes expressed as 1/3 life size. Before taking a real stack, I recommend practicing taking as tiny a focus advance as you can uniformly turn. Practice for a few minutes trying to make small uniform turns on the focus ring.

Use live view if using a DSLR. On many current DSLR, live view locks the mirror up and also starts the shutter electronically so there is no mirror slap or movement caused the shutter slamming open. Using live view will show your progress as you focus through your subject. Gene had it entirely right. Rather than worry about how many shots, just start just before the nearest point you want in focus, then shoot, then make your uniform turns, then shoot again, and continue until the last point you want in focus has been passed. You will be able to see the progress in your live view display.

After you have completed the sequence, use your software to compile the image. I use Zerene Stacker but there are many choices. If you see banding in your final copy you will have to make your uniform steps smaller. But the main thing...try it. It is a fun process and the results speak for themselves. I have attached several this weeks stacks for your review. (edited for typos)
As has been mentioned, at closeup magnifications (... (show quote)


Beautiful images.

Mike

Reply
Mar 30, 2019 14:02:39   #
wildconc2001 Loc: Chicagoland
 
1/3-2/3 is correct for most landscapes, excepting extreme wide angle shots. Macro images should be 1/2 in front and 1/2 in back. The closer in you are the less total depth that you will get. I'm sure there's a math formula for exact size covered but most likely a little experimenting will get you what you want. Start in the front with equal amounts in front and in back and then focus a bit further back. Depending on your depth of field, probably 3 or 4 shots will be required.

Reply
Mar 30, 2019 14:06:37   #
cactuspic Loc: Dallas, TX
 
Millismote wrote:
great pictures, how do you combine the series of photos into one?


You load the individual slices (usually as a group) into the focus stacking program. Then you run the program.

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Mar 30, 2019 14:29:59   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
REJ wrote:
I have a flower blossom that is about 2 inches thick and I would like a sharp focus 1/2 in front and 1/2 inch in the rear for a total of 3 inches, I am using a D810, with a 105 macro lens set at f8 and ss of 250/sec..How do I figure out how many shots I must take to cover that 3 inches. Thanks in advance. REJ.

PS. Should I shoot in JPEG or RAW.


You can take as many shots as you like, the smaller the aperture the less shots you need. You can check beforehand about how many would be best if you do a "dry run"! I usually like to do some stacking at /f2 or2.8, that way I can have the subject all in focus but still have the background nicely blurred, but it's just a matter of preference like most things!

Reply
Mar 30, 2019 16:56:23   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
wildconc2001 wrote:
1/3-2/3 is correct for most landscapes, excepting extreme wide angle shots. Macro images should be 1/2 in front and 1/2 in back. The closer in you are the less total depth that you will get. I'm sure there's a math formula for exact size covered but most likely a little experimenting will get you what you want. Start in the front with equal amounts in front and in back and then focus a bit further back. Depending on your depth of field, probably 3 or 4 shots will be required.


That really depends upon whether or not you are including foreground objects, and how close you are to those objects.

For example, if the nearest object was 10 feet, 3 shots might be enough (ff camera, 50mm lens).

Focusing at 10 feet would put the far end of acceptably sharp focus at about 13 feet. Focusing at 20 ft would put everything out to 35 ft into acceptably sharp focus. Then focusing at 50 feet will get you from 25 ft to infinity. (More or less, people can calculate more precise values here: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html )

But what if you had an object in the foreground 2 feet away? (again, ff camera, 50mm lens).

Focus at 24" feet, the far limit acceptably sharp focus is 25.5"; Focus then at 25" and that will get you out to a little over 27"'; Focus at 27" and that gets you almost to 29"; Focus at 29" and that gets you almost to 31"; Focus at 30" and that gets you to 32.2";

It is going slowly!

Focus at 32" and that gets you to 34.5"; Focus at 34" and that gets you to 36.9"; Focus at 36" gets you to 39"; 39" gets you to about 42"; 42" gets you to 46.5"; 46" gets you to 51" 51" gets you to about 59"; 59" gets you to 68.5"; 68" gets you to 81"; 81" gets you to 100"...

And 100" gets you to 10 feet at the far end of acceptably sharp focus, and you can go ahead and shoot the last three shots as outlined imn the first example above.

Mike

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Mar 30, 2019 17:05:34   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
Millismote wrote:
great pictures, how do you combine the series of photos into one?


There is a good resource page from Dr. Robert Berdan here:

https://www.canadiannaturephotographer.com/rberdan_focus_stacking.html

He compares using the three main stacking programs, Helicon, Zerene, and Photoshop, and at the bottom of the page is a list of other programs and resources.

Mike

Reply
Mar 30, 2019 19:25:04   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
Here's a chart that describes how to determine the distance in steps for each shot to be focus stacked based on the mm of the lens, the magnification ratio and the f-stop used.

https://zerenesystems.com/cms/stacker/docs/tables/macromicrodof

Unless the camera has 'in camera focus stacking' you will need a macro rail to turn the increments between shots and then a software system to combine the multiple images into one image.

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