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Nikon Purchasing Red
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Mar 12, 2024 11:55:30   #
Canisdirus
 
bsprague wrote:
The newer Nikon mirrorless models have done a good job of catching up. As long as they stayed glued to lens reflex designs they remained behind the Sonys and Panasonics for hybrid models.


Nikon is not being used by professional statistically for video work...there are much better options out there.

That's what they want to change...it could work.

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Mar 12, 2024 13:56:17   #
BBurns Loc: South Bay, California
 
smf85 wrote:
A lot has been posted on the purchase of Red Digital Cinema by Nikon. Much that I’ve seen seems concentrated on the fact that the acquisition gives Nikon a significant position in the cinema market but that only part of the story I think. It’s fairly obvious and reasonable that Nikon can leverage Red’s various expertises to create a full set of video oriented cameras. I do expect that Nikon will allow Red to continue to be a pro-cinema brand and will not interfere with their cinema products; it’s likely that Red will orient themselves to the cinema world completely. I think it will be interesting to see where the Nikon branded camera’s end and the Red branded camera’s start and if there’s an overlap model or two in the videographers space or if the videographers space offerings become Nikon branded products. It’s also likely the Nikon will take over the currently outsourced manufacture of Red camera’s and other equipment - it will be an interesting question to see how the branding on that shows up. It’s easily to assume hat Nikon will take over the manufacture of Red’s optics. Still, there’s another aspect to the purchase thats worth looking at in terms of the overall industry.

Red also comes with a significant patent portfolio - the Raw compression patents are just a part of it. Another part is the global shutter technology. Another are their codec technologies. Still another are their large format image sensors. There are some hints in the financial and legal world that Sony’s global shutter is dependent on Red licensed technology (conversely Red’s global shutter and indeed all of their sensors are dependent on various Sony technology and licenses). Since complex cross licensing agreements are very common in the technology industry this has the possibility of getting interesting. I’ll note here that Sony has a history of buying licenses of technology with its implementation expertise - if they want to use your technology getting them to implement it for your product is far less expensive if you allow them to use the technology. I’ll also note that both the Sony camera and the Red camera are roughly 33MP designs - meaning that the back ends are similar, e.g. the pixel transistors are different but everything else is the same. In particular the back end bus that moves all that data to a buffer in image processor would be essentially the same (although the actual silicon could be very different looking and using different circuit designs for the same process).

Of all the possibilities is that in order to get certain cinema technologies and global shutter technologies Canon will have to license is rather legendary auto-focus capabilities. I doubt they would want to but thats the point of the portfolio - Nikon can use the portfolio directly (if it hasn’t already) in its camera’s and also use it as a cudgel to get technologies they want, such as perhaps a better autofocus system. One can argue that Canon might not give up its AF technologies to get RAW compression and thats probably true. Raw compression and global shutter is a different value proposition altogether one that I think Canon would find attractive. And keeping the EF/RF mounts as supported options on Red will just add incentive to the deal. Sony’s AF is also extremely good and they would be an equally good partner.

This is all speculation - my point is that there are additional advantages to Nikon from the acquisition beyond the additional of cinema cameras and lenses. How many of them will be utilized that we actually find out about will be interesting to see.
A lot has been posted on the purchase of Red Digit... (show quote)


For those who are unaware of RED, I have a friend who was deeply involved with Pro video and RED cams for nearly 15 years.
(Philip Bloom in UK used them for a while) These may appear “CHEAP” (vs. Arri, etc)
But by the time you have all the accessories you are in for megabucks.

There are used in a lot of various industries and high end productions.
(I'm sure you have seen the RED logo at the end of many movies)

They are quirky though. Some users don't like them for their software foibles.

I suspect a lot of high end ones use external recorders.
There is special software to convert RED RAW into other codecs.

800 MB/s is very fast
The Canon R5/C can record RAW up to 2570 Mbits/sec (344 MBytes/sec) to CF Express Type B cards
The data rate is 1980 Mbit/sec (247 MB/sec) at 8192x4320, 29.97 fps its the lowly LP-E6NH battery (7.2v)

Best Current Canon C500 Mk II is only a 6062x3432 sensor
It shoots at up to 2 Gbit/sec to CF Express cards (250 MB/sec)

Red Digital Cinema 512GB Red Pro CFast 2.0 Memory Cards support up to 280 MB/sec.

The RED DIGITAL CINEMA 4TB PRO CFexpress 2.0 Type B Memory Card is about $1500

CF Express cards are rated to 1300 MBytes/sec (the RED card shown above)

NIKON/RED MAY KICK CANON's BUT IN THE CINEMA RANGE
(I suspect their main competition is Arri, maybe some Sony, not Canon for large cinema productions)

You see a lot of Canon cameras in the TV productions and NETFLIX (C500’s, C70, R5/C B Cams…)

TOP OF THE LINE:

SENSOR TYPE V-RAPTOR® [X] 8K VV 35.4MP Global Shutter CMOS
EFFECTIVE PIXELS 8192 x 4320
SENSOR SIZE 40.96mm x 21.60mm (Diagonal: 46.31mm)
DYNAMIC RANGE 17+ stops

MAX DATA RATES Up to 800 MB/s using RED branded or other qualified CFexpress media cards1
REDCODE® RAW
MAX FRAME RATES 120 fps at 8K 17:9, 150 fps at 8K 2.4:1
140 fps at 7K 17:9, 175 fps at 7K 2.4:1
160 fps at 6K 17:9, 200 fps at 6K 2.4:1
192 fps at 5K 17:9, 240 fps at 5K 2.4:1
240 fps at 4K 17:9, 300 fps at 4K 2.4:1
320 fps at 3K 17:9, 400 fps at 3K 2.4:1
480 fps at 2K 17:9, 600 fps at 2K 2.4:1

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Mar 12, 2024 14:25:06   #
BebuLamar
 
bsprague wrote:
Do you remember Seattle Film Works? They bought movie film, cut it to 36 frames and canned it. When you sent in the exposed film you got back negatives, prints, slides and a (low res) disk.

Currently they spool Kodak Vision 3 color negative film for movies in 35mm cassette too.

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Mar 12, 2024 14:28:23   #
Artcameraman Loc: Springfield NH
 
People want video, fewer want stills.

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