rwoodvira

If you have not had a chance to see the series captioned on HBO it might be worth a look. Like Band of Brothers and The Pacific before it, it shows what the B-17 airmen faced bombing Germany and Nazi targets in World War II. Many may not know that those crews had the highest casualty rates during the war flying through enemy fighters and flack from below. The show has its light moments, but the combat scenes are brutal.

The show is special to me for a reason. Many years ago I started at a major insurance brokerage and part of the team was a gentleman named Bill. Bill became, whether he knew or not, one of my mentors - he taught me how to take care of clients and always put their needs first. When I became an account executive I was asked how my retention rate was so high. Bill had taught me to treat the client's money like it was my own.

Bill was a gunner in those B-17's and flew a number of missions until his plane was shot down over Germany. His plane after bombing a location had to fly back and take photos of the results. Their plane was hit and he bailed out landing outside of town; all the others landed in the town and locals hung them. He was captured, interviewed by the SS who beat him so bad that the German doctors had to place a plate in his head. He told a lot of stories about being in the camps - he actually said that some of Hogan's Heroes wasn't that far off - the German guards were either old or young kids. He was eventually freed by the American Army.

One of his best stories came years later; he had to return to the UK to meet with Lloyd's. An overzealous British custom agent about his same age was tearing through Bill's luggage. Bill deadpanned: "Your people weren't that interested in what I had in my bag in '43." The agent looked up refolded everything and apologized.

I moved on in my career and Bill retired and we lost touch. I tried to find him years later to thank him again for his wisdom; I'm sure he's gone by now - he was around my Dad's age who was born in 1916. It may seem trite to refer to my Dad and him as part of the Greatest Generation, but they were.

The show shows the sacrifice of those men who faced death every day. We should all thank the Good Lord for them coming before us.

Shellback Loc: North of Cheyenne Bottoms Wetlands - Kansas

Thanks for the info on the movie - I’ll check it out.
I agree that they were the Greatest Generation. My dad was born in 1918 and flew B24’s out of Italy - I have pics taken from a cockpit of the flak the bombers had to put up with. He made squadron commander and had some interesting stories. He finally shipped out after his 51st mission (50 was the go home number). He was happy that the only injury on his crew was a minor cut on the top gunner’s shoulder from a piece of flak.
Dad said they did not make plans for "after a flight” as they didn’t know if they would make it back.
Like the B17 groups, the group he was in had 26 of the original 68 combat crews and 17 of the first 27 replacement crews shot down. The group, equivalent to an infantry regiment, equalled or exceeded the killed-in-action of 15 ground force divisions.
I hope this country never has to go through that again.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

All of my Mom's brothers (6) served in the war. One was a tail gunner on a B-24. They got shot down making a raid on an air base, and he spent the last three months of the war as a POW. He was captured by Luftwaffe troops, and went to a Luftwaffe run camp, so he said it wasn't as bad as he heard about the other camps. The German airmen and support troops he ran into sort of looked at US and British airmen as being just like us, but on the other side.

My Dad tried 4 times to get in the Army, twice with help of friends taking the physical for him, he made it to basic before he got caught. When he was 9 he got trampled by a horse and spent 18 months with multiple surgeries in a Shriner's Hospital, ending up with one leg 1.5" shorter than the other. He had to wear special shoes, with the one having a very thick sole. So he went to Detroit and worked at Packard making aircraft engines and learning to fly with the Civil Air Patrol on the side. He had only one hour flying time to go to get his multi-engine certificate when the war ended and the program closed. He couldn't afford private lessons to get that 1 hour because he was a newly-wed with a baby on the way.

My Mom showed up in the department he became foreman of (a labor recruiter visited her High School in PA), they met, dated, married, and I was born in October after the war ended just about the time they finished closing down the factory, and he became a cab driver in Detroit.

His brother was too young for WW2, but was in the Army during the Korean War and the start of the Cold War. He was a tank commander in a unit that patrolled a section of the East & West Germany border that was the Elbe River. He said there was always at least one Soviet tank on the other banked staying even with them. Often they did there patrols with their turrent guns pointed at each other as they drove back and forth.

Vladimir200 Loc: Beaumont, Ca.

I'm watching the show and love it. BTW, great story about your friend.........thanks for sharing.

rwoodvira

Bill was a character of a rare order. We got called into a meeting and were told we each needed to cut our expense accounts by 10% (we had to entertain clients). I dutifully cut back and told Bill. He turned to me and said: "I increased mine, if I cut back they would think I'm cheating them." Not one word was said to him; the rest of us were told to cut back more.

It's strange how those stories come back to you after you retire.

I always like him, thought was a gutsy guy. But I looked at those combat scenes and you have to marvel at the courage of those guys who went out to kick Hitler's ass.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

I am a retired history teacher and have read a ton of stuff on the war. Europe and the Pacific had many differences due to mostly land and air fighting in Europe and naval, island invasion after invasion and air fighting. But the one I found interesting, and it made perfect sense was a statement by a guy who fought in both who said that in Europe against the Germans and their allies it was a noisy battle with yelling, screaming, cussing etc. while in the Pacific it was almost a silent style of fighting because for the most part they were playing a deadly game of hide and seek through the jungles on the islands where he fought. First one to be found=first one to get killed. So silence and sneaking or patiently waiting in silence was the style right up until the shooting started.

Very similar to a lot of the fighting in Vietnam, especially the dueling between long range patrols from both sides. He who was seen or heard first got the first chance to die. Then once contact was made the shooting started, but some sneaking still took place, changing positions to surprise the enemy or trying to slip troops around the flanks to hit the rear or catch the enemy in a cross fire. And of course the VC and NVA used rockets and mortars and the US and Allies used massive amounts of artillery and airpower in addition to our own mortars.

Some of our HQ subordinate units were Special Forces with indigenous mercenaries such as Nung and Montagnard. They fought much like the VC and NVA, mortars and small arms mostly but they could call on artillery and airstrikes. Once, one of our Montagnard battalions went up against a VC Main Force Unit that had been in the same area since the fighting against the French. Their bunkers etc. were strong and hard to knock out. The Hollywood "run up and toss in grenades or demo charges" was a sure way to get dead because of the interlocking fields of fire those positions had. Their Special Forces handlers came to us (I worked in the Tactical Operations Center of HQ.) for help. Well our company had commanded a combat engineer group in the Pacific in WW2 and still had some of that gear and weapons which we packed up and took to Vietnam on the ship with us. Then we got told, you are a HQ company of a General Support Group(new type of unit, we were the first one deployed), not Combat Engineers anymore, you are not authorized the ammunition for those. So among other things we had what are commonly called "Bazookas"=3.5" rocket launchers, an anti-tank and fortification man portable, reloadable weapon. But the SF guys were authorized the ammo, so we "loaned" them the ones we had and the ammo dump issued them some rockets for them. The first time they used them against those bunkers, the Yards fell in love with them. The SF commander called us on the radio to tell us and we could hear the Yard troops cheering in the background. After they took out several, they started finding some abandoned. The VC had gotten the message that their bunkers weren't safe anymore.

vpeek1947 Loc: Louisville, Ky

I was in the Air Force 66-70 - Air Operations/Tactical Air Controller. One of my instructors was John Northrup - WW2 he was a crew member on a B17 - he was shot down over Germany - he spent a year or so in a prisoner camp. He told me the weird thing about when he was shot down and blown out of the aircraft - woke up with an open parachute and his boots were blown off. Never figured out how he got out of the B-17 and what happened to his boots.

vpeek1947 Loc: Louisville, Ky

I was in the Air Force 66-70 - Air Operations/Tactical Air Controller. One of my instructors was John Northrup - WW2 he was a crew member on a B17 - he was shot down over Germany - he spent a year or so in a prisoner camp. He told me the weird thing about when he was shot down and blown out of the aircraft - woke up with an open parachute and his boots were blown off. Never figured out how he got out of the B-17 and what happened to his boots.

jccash Loc: Longwood, Florida

After you watch band of Brothers, watch the Pacific by the same producers.

bobforman Loc: Anacortes, Washington State

I watched Band of Brothers and the Pacific, so I'm somewhat spoiled. After only one episode I didn't feel "Masters" measured up as well. It's still OK, but not the personal approach I felt to each of the guys in the first two.

DIRTY HARRY Loc: Hartland, Michigan

My Wife's father, Gordon Roy Dupries, was a B-17 tail gunner in Germany. She never knew him.

starlifter Loc: Towson, MD

How can you watch this series if you don't have apple TV ?

jccash Loc: Longwood, Florida

Band the Brothers and the Pacific are both on Netflix.

cincykid

I don't have Apple TV but came across a lecture on the book, by its author, Donald Miller, on C-Span probably 15 years ago. I read the book which I highly recommend as well as "The Bomber Maffia." Here is a link to another lecture by Miller on his book. At about 4 minutes it gets into the subject.

https://youtu.be/fAoYs2uGXyM?si=ibMs5erSPNCE44dT

rdemarco52 Loc: Wantagh, NY

Its a great series and you really get a sense of what those missions were like.