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Proprietary RAW vs DNG
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Feb 16, 2024 10:54:51   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
You sometimes remind me of one of my chemistry professors from whom I learned a lot but who occasionally, just occasionally, found it difficult to be unfailingly kind:)


Like your professors of old, we all probably expect you to listen, to hear, and to understand the wisdom we dispense consistently and repeatedly. When you change your cameras, you'll likely need to change your software, your computer, your storage, your lenses. Don't make a digital camera change without full understanding of all the follow-on -- and possibly unintended -- consequences.

When you say you have to change your PS to edit new RAW, I grow concerned you're not subscribing already, where you edit in native 16-bit through the entire workflow. Maybe there some other questions / topics you need to walk over to the mirror and ask yourself this morning?

We all want you to achieve your maximum potential. And, we expect nothing less.

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Feb 16, 2024 13:09:51   #
MJPerini
 
I did not mean to suggest that DNG's are a Bad thing, and did mention that it is the native format of some cameras, But there does not seem to be any reason to use it as an intermediate step, because all editors have to read native files.

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Feb 16, 2024 14:08:19   #
JimGray Loc: Albuquerque, New Mexico
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
DNG is an overall waste of time. This was Adobe's effort to try to take over the market. It failed, mostly because Adobe was forced by the market to provide support for 'native format' RAW files from all the relevant camera manufacturers.

The idea that a DNG is smaller is true only until the Adobe software begins to write their edit instructions into the DNG. Then, these files will tend to get larger.

How does a DNG get smaller than the RAW? By Adobe striping the camera EXIF from the RAW and replacing with Adobe's own EXIF, a mixture of original data, the removal of some of the original camera data, and then Adobe's start-point for their Adobe-specific EXIF.

When you let Adobe remove camera EXIF, you tend to lose the ability to analyze the technical details of the AF configuration using the native camera software. This is especially true if you convert to DNG and discard the original RAW.

The fact that Adobe must support the original (aka native) RAW format, as well as all the players in the digital editor market, pretty much confirms the DNG conversion is a waste of time. The camera manufacturers flatly rejected the idea of outputting DNG from their cameras instead of RAW sensor data. Adobe is big, but not big enough to tell / force the digital camera industry what to do with their cameras.

If you convert to DNG and discard the RAW, well now you're locked-into Adobe and / or software that fully supports the DNG, pretty much only Adobe. That's what Adobe really wants....
DNG is an overall waste of time. This was Adobe's ... (show quote)



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Feb 16, 2024 14:16:09   #
JimGray Loc: Albuquerque, New Mexico
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
If we think about how Topaz uses DNG to edit RAW first and pass those edits back into LR or PS, this is another 'serious' and 'useful' implementation. So, it's not that DNG doesn't have uses. Rather, default conversion and replacement of proprietary RAW with DNG is where Adobe pushed 'industry standard' too far for the industry to agree / adopt.


This is another very good point. I create dng files with Topaz applications regularly.

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Feb 17, 2024 02:55:12   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
The biggest flaw is also why it can be used...

DNG can encapsulate EVERY standard digital format, including JPG, PNG and the like. By doing so, it creates a 'non-editable file.

This is what make folks think the content it 'raw' when it is not. Been saying that since its inception. As to being a norm? Ah!

Google WEP formats are making a dent, mainly because Google is so influential on the WEB, smaller files, includes animation but software to edit and save as? I have not found any but limited options on the WEB.

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Feb 17, 2024 05:54:46   #
ELNikkor
 
Never messed with DNG, but recently a few RAW files ended up as DNG, maybe after some processing. I was shocked that they were around 5kb! Totally worthless!

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Feb 17, 2024 07:01:26   #
Robertl594 Loc: Bloomfield Hills, Michigan and Nantucket
 
So if I am interpreting all of the above accurately, In camera Leica created DNG files are full RAW images, that should not be converted into Adobe DNG files when imported into LR? That all of the raw data remains with Leica created DNG files, however, any native Leica DNG files that are converted, lose some of the finer attributes of raw files?

I only shoot NEF, (just added Leica Q3 to my array) and I never convert my NEFs, only save as JPEGs for web use. Trying to figure out this DNG thing.

Thank you
RL

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Feb 17, 2024 07:53:14   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Robertl594 wrote:
So if I am interpreting all of the above accurately, In camera Leica created DNG files are full RAW images, that should not be converted into Adobe DNG files when imported into LR? That all of the raw data remains with Leica created DNG files, however, any native Leica DNG files that are converted, lose some of the finer attributes of raw files?

I only shoot NEF, (just added Leica Q3 to my array) and I never convert my NEFs, only save as JPEGs for web use. Trying to figure out this DNG thing.

Thank you
RL
So if I am interpreting all of the above accuratel... (show quote)


I would think converting a Leica dng to an Adobe dng would be the same sort of useless action as converting my nef file to dng. The dng from Leica is the original file and our editing software should be able to use all original raw formats, including Leica dng (as long as our software is up to date).

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Feb 17, 2024 08:19:32   #
Robertl594 Loc: Bloomfield Hills, Michigan and Nantucket
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
I would think converting a Leica dng to an Adobe dng would be the same sort of useless action as converting my nef file to dng. The dng from Leica is the original file and our editing software should be able to use all original raw formats, including Leica dng (as long as our software is up to date).


I agree. I would never convert a NEF into a DNG. I seem to recall my last import of the Leica DNG’s into LR, went through a conversion. I will look out for this next time I import.

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Feb 17, 2024 08:55:45   #
BebuLamar
 
Robertl594 wrote:
I agree. I would never convert a NEF into a DNG. I seem to recall my last import of the Leica DNG’s into LR, went through a conversion. I will look out for this next time I import.


When I bought my Nikon Df in 2013 I was still using PS CS2 and it can't open the NEF files from the camera. I had to do NEF to DNG conversion. Now I have a newer version that can open the NEF.

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Feb 17, 2024 09:06:55   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
BebuLamar wrote:
When I bought my Nikon Df in 2013 I was still using PS CS2 and it can't open the NEF files from the camera. I had to do NEF to DNG conversion. Now I have a newer version that can open the NEF.


It is always a pleasure to use up to date software that doesn't need workarounds for its limitations.

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Feb 17, 2024 10:08:31   #
BebuLamar
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
It is always a pleasure to use up to date software that doesn't need workarounds for its limitations.


But I found I need CS2 to open the photo CD (*.pcd) files.

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Feb 17, 2024 10:22:05   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
I don't have any pcd files to try out, but I have heard that IrfanView will open pcd files. IrfanView is Windows only freeware, but it does work in Parallels on MacOS.

https://www.irfanview.com/main_formats.htm

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