Frank T Loc: New York, NY

Jennifer Crumbley was found guilty of four counts of manslaughter Tuesday — the first parent in the US to be charged over a mass school shooting committed by their child.

This is a good start.

Texcaster Loc: Queensland

Kyle's mum needs to be on the dodgy parents for trial list.

Frank T Loc: New York, NY

Agreed

tramsey Loc: Texas

I think they should go back and take another look at some of those parents

pendennis

Don't get too smug. The county prosecutor is not on very solid ground, and convinced a local judge that involuntary manslaughter was the call based on the pistol only; there are no grand juries in Michigan, normally. The Crumbley's (assuming the husband is also convicted) will certainly appeal the verdict, either in state and/or Federal court.

What if the weapon had been a knife, or a baseball bat, etc.? Would the parents still be liable? The logical conclusion would be to prosecute any parent whose child used any weapon in a crime. By the time a juvenile gets to the murderer's age, "alea iacta est!".

Don't get me wrong. The Crumbley's are scum, but does that rise to the level of criminal culpability by them?

I've been following this local case since the shooting. There are a number of attorneys in the area who disagreed with the prosecutor. They're certainly guilty of child neglect statutes, but in every case prior to this, a person charged with involuntary manslaughter has to have been an active participant. If the prosecutor's logic is followed, then the passenger in a vehicle where the driver was drunk and killed someone, could have the same culpability. i.e Why didn't the passenger take the keys from the driver?

Frank T Loc: New York, NY

I think there are some differences between the Crumbly case and the other possibilities you bring up.
1. Ethan Crumbley was 15 at the time of the shooting and as a minor was under the direct supervision of his parents.
2. In the drunk driver case you mention, unless the passenger was the owner of the car and voluntarily gave the keys to a known drunk driver, there would be no case against him/her.
3. The passenger in a car has no right or responsibility to take anyone's keys away.
4. In the Crumbley case there were warning signs, which may or may not exist in your hypothetical.
5. A jury of her peers convicted her in a trial.

As to an appeal, time will tell, but I think in this case the charging, and convicting of the mother was both proper and justified.

Kraken Loc: Barry's Bay

Plus it will make other Fathers and Mothers take a

second-thought about giving little Johnny a gun.

RixPix Loc: Miami, Florida

You make valid points that may be addressed in appeals. However, for years gun owners have touted that they are entitled to gun ownership without restrictions. I have no dispute with this idea at this time. However, parents have always been held responsible for the actions of their children whether it is a broken window by a baseball or a dent in a car by a bicycle, parents assume the responsibility for their child's actions. This legal decision merely extends the parents' responsibility to greater acts of violence.

srg

There is practically no crime in North Korea because the whole extended family gets punished.
Do you want to be free?
Or would you rather live in North Korea.
I think Freedom is worth more than just the assurance that nothing bad will ever happen.

pendennis

You're circling. My example was to cite the inanity of trying to prosecute a passenger in a car where a drunk driver killed people. I never stated the passenger had any obligation to stop the driver, and I did not infer that the passenger provided the keys.

Conviction by one's peers does not guarantee justice. Juries get it wrong all the time; that's why organizations such as the Innocence Project remain in business. Judges, as appeals move forward, don't like to plow new ground, and get overturned further up the appeals process. And conviction of the parents in an act in which they did not participate, violates the basic tenet of our Constitution. The Crumbley's were not at the school when the murders happened, nor did they abet in the murderer's planning of his crime.

The Crumbleys may be guilty of lousy parenting, and even contributing to the delinquency of a minor, but they are not guilty of involuntary manslaughter as defined in states (even Michigan) today. There've been a number of noted local attorneys who've taken this position, along with several nationally-known Constitutional scholars.

And just because he was under the "direct supervision of his parents", doesn't mean they are criminally liable for his actions. As an example, there are any number of juveniles who kill other people in the city of Detroit on a regular basis, yet the Wayne County prosecutor has never filed an involuntary manslaughter against the parents of the shooter.

The Oakland County prosecutor, in this case, is grooming herself to run for governor in 2026. That alone taints the prosecution.

pendennis

That per se, is a leap in logic. The incidents you cite are all civil infractions of sorts. You've conflated civil and criminal liability in your citation. That's a broad line that's not easily crossed, and likely won't be on appeal.

SteveS Loc: The US is my home.

Kind of hard to charge his mother for connection to a crime that didn't happen.

Texcaster Loc: Queensland

Poor Kyle. "Kyle Rittenhouse is being sued by the estate of the man he killed, complains that lawsuits make it 'harder for me to move on with my life'. " Kyle's broke now and he'd like Big Taintly to share some of his 'lawyer money'.

SteveS Loc: The US is my home.

So what does a conspirisy lawsuit filed against Kenosha city officials, police officers and Kyle by Anthony Huber's father have to do with your comment about his mother?

SteveR Loc: Michigan

Remember, these were the parents who were shown graphic drawings of their son holding a pistol shooting people and wouldn't take him home. On that same day that he killed the four people. I also think that the counselors/administrators who saw those drawings should probably be fired.