Using flash: Hello Everyone I am hoping that my first post in this section will prove beneficial, I am having a problem using flash, I have a nikon D90 using a nissin Di622 flash gun.

essexphotographer Loc: Romford Essex UK

Hello Everyone

I am hoping that my first post in this section will prove beneficial, I am having a problem using flash, I have a nikon D90 using a nissin Di622 flash gun. I was asked to do a 6 hour shoot at a reception for a sikh (indian) celebration and I took some 300 shots, However as you can see from photos the flash was used, but I could not understand why these 2 shots the first being shot with the flash bouncing of the ceiling and the second directly at subject.
I just could not work out the lighting, and which of these photos look natural. Has anyone got any advice please, and secondly when shooting in a place like this how do i compensate for the light conditions, still relatively new at using flash so I have a lot to learn from you guys.
Both photos ISO 1000/F6/ and 1/60 sec in aperture priority

Many Thanks
Tony

JR1 Loc: Tavistock, Devon, UK

You need to BOUNCE the flash using say a STOFEN, and for a room this size a good flash.

Also becasuse you have made the mistake of the flash being directed front and not bounced and when it is bounced it is underpowered so b y the time it hits the high ceiling and comes back there is little left.

you have burnt out the tables and the reading the camera has made has been to over expose.

DID you use a Stofen or Omnibounce or just the flash.

RAW or JPEG, and in the top one the camera is not level.

GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City

I shoot several events every year in conditions like this.
Give up thinking you can ight the whole room with one flash.
You need to decide what the subject is and get as close as you comfortably can to document it. A Stofen-type cap only reduces flash power in a room like this. At the distance you were shooting from, at what appears to be the subject, it does no softening. Other than the exposure difference, notice the similarity in your photos? Trying to get fill from bouncing the light using the Stofen, especially with that high ceiling just doesn't work. The light is probably still up there.

Here's what I do:
-As I said, get as close to the action/subject as you can.
-Shoot with the camera on manual and set it, by testing, to get the ambient light about 1.5 stops under exposed.
One venue I shoot in is always dark (to enhance the patrons' looks, I assume) My exposure is usually about 1/15th @ 5.6 with ISO 800. This technique is called "drag shutter". That will help with keepng the photo from looking like it was shot in a cave, which would happen if you used a higher shutter setting. 1/15th of a second too long? Don't worry, the flash goes off at around 1/1000 and freezes the action of the subject. The background is secondary and a little blur isn't going to be noticed.
-With my Nikon flash, I get great results most of the time just using ttl. There are some times when I need manual, like when the people show up wearing all white, which would make the flash underexpose. For the flash, since you're closer, you can use the Stofen crap...cap, but it's still not going to do much softening. Get a Light Genious Light Scoop. It's bigger, so it would soften the shadows a bit more. Instead of wasting light and blinding people behind you, it uses it to expose the subject. http://www.litegenius.com/

Now, for a little advanced lesson.
You are using a flash to expose the subject of the photo.
That is about 5000~5500 Kelvin degrees (near daylignt color balance)
The room looks like it is illuminated with incandescent bulbs, usually around 3000 Kelvin, very warm and even more so if they are dimmed. To get them closer in color tempreature, you put an amber color correction (CTO- color tempreature orange) filter over the flash to get it closer to the ambient tungsten light. An exact match isn't needed and I actually like a little warmth in the background anyway. Then you set the camera's color balance to match the flash.

Read more here: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2008/05/lighting-102-62-gelling-for-tungsten.html

I find the stofen-type cap is useful in only one place:
I always use it in my softbox to spread the light evenly inside it. Works great there.

ronz Loc: Florida

I use the Nissen 866 and if I know I'm shooting shots like your 1st pic, I would choose a smaller group of people if I want to have them properly exposed and see faces, then and just move around the room. Those ceilings are too high to bounce and get much help with the output on the flash you are using. Often I will take a couple umbrellas and light a large area if I know the crowd is spread out. You may want to consider investing in a couple battery powered monolights if you continue shooting in a large hall as that. Don't forget to chimp if you have a question about the exposure so you can make adjustments. I use the 622's as fill because they don't have the power. You might check out the new Nissen just out this month, it is amazing and almost like a monolight but more money than the Einstein's or White Lightning by P. Buff company. My best advice is shoot smaller groups so the bride can identify who they are and then maybe one shot of the room.

Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada

GoofyNewfie wrote:

I shoot several events every year in conditions like this.
Give up thinking you can ight the whole room with one flash.
You need to decide what the subject is and get as close as you comfortably can to document it. A Stofen-type cap only reduces flash power in a room like this. At the distance you were shooting from, at what appears to be the subject, it does no softening. Other than the exposure difference, notice the similarity in your photos? Trying to get fill from bouncing the light using the Stofen, especially with that high ceiling just doesn't work. The light is probably still up there.

Here's what I do:
-As I said, get as close to the action/subject as you can.
-Shoot with the camera on manual and set it, by testing, to get the ambient light about 1.5 stops under exposed.
One venue I shoot in is always dark (to enhance the patrons' looks, I assume) My exposure is usually about 1/15th @ 5.6 with ISO 800. This technique is called "drag shutter". That will help with keepng the photo from looking like it was shot in a cave, which would happen if you used a higher shutter setting. 1/15th of a second too long? Don't worry, the flash goes off at around 1/1000 and freezes the action of the subject. The background is secondary and a little blur isn't going to be noticed.
-With my Nikon flash, I get great results most of the time just using ttl. There are some times when I need manual, like when the people show up wearing all white, which would make the flash underexpose. For the flash, since you're closer, you can use the Stofen crap...cap, but it's still not going to do much softening. Get a Light Genious Light Scoop. It's bigger, so it would soften the shadows a bit more. Instead of wasting light and blinding people behind you, it uses it to expose the subject. http://www.litegenius.com/

Now, for a little advanced lesson.
You are using a flash to expose the subject of the photo.
That is about 5000~5500 Kelvin degrees (near daylignt color balance)
The room looks like it is illuminated with incandescent bulbs, usually around 3000 Kelvin, very warm and even more so if they are dimmed. To get them closer in color tempreature, you put an amber color correction (CTO- color tempreature orange) filter over the flash to get it closer to the ambient tungsten light. An exact match isn't needed and I actually like a little warmth in the background anyway. Then you set the camera's color balance to match the flash.

Read more here: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2008/05/lighting-102-62-gelling-for-tungsten.html

I find the stofen-type cap is useful in only one place:
I always use it in my softbox to spread the light evenly inside it. Works great there.

I shoot several events every year in conditions li... (show quote)

Great advice again GoofyNewfie.

The overly warm cast in the first image could also be a result of a warm colored ceiling. Attempting to bounce from a high, non-white ceiling is a waste of time. I also agree with the worthlessness of the Stofen other than inside a soft box.

Maybe this question should have been asked before the event??
:shock:

Daryl New Loc: Wellington,New Zealand

GoofyNewfie says it all,well put.

skidooman Loc: Minnesota

Weddingguy wrote:

GoofyNewfie wrote:

I shoot several events every year in conditions like this.
Give up thinking you can ight the whole room with one flash.
You need to decide what the subject is and get as close as you comfortably can to document it. A Stofen-type cap only reduces flash power in a room like this. At the distance you were shooting from, at what appears to be the subject, it does no softening. Other than the exposure difference, notice the similarity in your photos? Trying to get fill from bouncing the light using the Stofen, especially with that high ceiling just doesn't work. The light is probably still up there.

Here's what I do:
-As I said, get as close to the action/subject as you can.
-Shoot with the camera on manual and set it, by testing, to get the ambient light about 1.5 stops under exposed.
One venue I shoot in is always dark (to enhance the patrons' looks, I assume) My exposure is usually about 1/15th @ 5.6 with ISO 800. This technique is called "drag shutter". That will help with keepng the photo from looking like it was shot in a cave, which would happen if you used a higher shutter setting. 1/15th of a second too long? Don't worry, the flash goes off at around 1/1000 and freezes the action of the subject. The background is secondary and a little blur isn't going to be noticed.
-With my Nikon flash, I get great results most of the time just using ttl. There are some times when I need manual, like when the people show up wearing all white, which would make the flash underexpose. For the flash, since you're closer, you can use the Stofen crap...cap, but it's still not going to do much softening. Get a Light Genious Light Scoop. It's bigger, so it would soften the shadows a bit more. Instead of wasting light and blinding people behind you, it uses it to expose the subject. http://www.litegenius.com/

Now, for a little advanced lesson.
You are using a flash to expose the subject of the photo.
That is about 5000~5500 Kelvin degrees (near daylignt color balance)
The room looks like it is illuminated with incandescent bulbs, usually around 3000 Kelvin, very warm and even more so if they are dimmed. To get them closer in color tempreature, you put an amber color correction (CTO- color tempreature orange) filter over the flash to get it closer to the ambient tungsten light. An exact match isn't needed and I actually like a little warmth in the background anyway. Then you set the camera's color balance to match the flash.

Read more here: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2008/05/lighting-102-62-gelling-for-tungsten.html

I find the stofen-type cap is useful in only one place:
I always use it in my softbox to spread the light evenly inside it. Works great there.

I shoot several events every year in conditions li... (show quote)

Great advice again GoofyNewfie.

The overly warm cast in the first image could also be a result of a warm colored ceiling. Attempting to bounce from a high, non-white ceiling is a waste of time. I also agree with the worthlessness of the Stofen other than inside a soft box.

Maybe this question should have been asked before the event??
:shock:

quote=GoofyNewfie I shoot several events every ye... (show quote)

Maybe (especially if he's paid for it), but he admits he is new to it and wants to learn. Trying to learn after the fact is probably not the best way to go,,,so I agree with Weddinguy on this one. You have great advice here, and a terrific link to a place that discusses virtually all things flash. I suggest visiting it often. I will also jump on the stofen uselessness bandwagon, especially in this case.

I have a question for the OP though,,,,what is the focus of these shots?? All they tell me is that this is one big room with a few people walking around,,,I see no story here. If this is an event as you describe, photographing it in a way that conveys the event would be better than a huge overview of the room. From these photos, I can't tell what is going on. Just a thought.

Never tried the stofen inside one of my softboxes,,,have to knock the dust off it and give it a try sometime. Nice tip :)

raymondh Loc: Walker, MI

Your tutelage is much appreciated, particularly with the color balance explanation. I seem to struggle with this. My 7d has settings for florescent & incandescent which never seem to produce the right CB. It seems that the AWB works better. Would you ever find a situation where you would completely eliminate the ambient & use the flash balance setting?

Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada

raymondh wrote:

Your tutelage is much appreciated, particularly with the color balance explanation. I seem to struggle with this. My 7d has settings for florescent & incandescent which never seem to produce the right CB. It seems that the AWB works better. Would you ever find a situation where you would completely eliminate the ambient & use the flash balance setting?

If you are in close and use a faster shutter speed you will underexpose the ambient light to the point where it will have little or no effect on color balance. If you drag the shutter (slower shutter speeds) to include the ambient light as part of your exposure, you can do one of two things. 1) You can add a filter to the flash to match the ambient light, or 2) use a custom white balance setting. If the two sources of light are close to equal in intensity and particularly if they are both lighting a different part of the subject, the filter on the flash is preferred.

Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada

Weddingguy wrote:

quote=raymondh Your tutelage is much appreciated,... (show quote)

My statement here presumed that you understand that using a faster shutter speed up to "sync" speed does not alter the exposure of the flash, but does change the exposure of the ambient light. Your "sync" speed will be either 1/200th or 1/250th of a second, depending on your camera model.

Hope that helps . .

raymondh Loc: Walker, MI

Weddingguy wrote:

quote=Weddingguy quote=raymondh Your tutelage is... (show quote)

Understood. THanks :thumbup:

GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City

skidooman wrote:

Never tried the stofen inside one of my softboxes,,,have to knock the dust off it and give it a try sometime. Nice tip :)

When you consider that softboxes are designed for bare-bulb flash heads- where the light is dispersed to the sides as much or more than out the front, the stofen-type caps do a good job of mimicing that. I also use them on umbrellas for the same reason. I'm guessing I picked that up from Strobist too.

Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada

GoofyNewfie wrote:

skidooman wrote:

Never tried the stofen inside one of my softboxes,,,have to knock the dust off it and give it a try sometime. Nice tip :)

When you consider that softboxes are designed for bare-bulb flash heads- where the light is dispersed to the sides as much or more than out the front, the stofen-type caps do a good job of mimicing that. I also use them on umbrellas for the same reason. I'm guessing I picked that up from Strobist too.

GoofyNewfie . . . I actually only use the Stofen in the soft box . . . when using umbrellas I use the Lite-Scoop and it works much better. Wish the Scoop would fit in the soft box :shock:

GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City

Weddingguy wrote:

quote=GoofyNewfie quote=skidooman br Never trie... (show quote)

I'll have to give the scoop a try in the brolly.
You got me hooked on the scoop in the first place.

Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada

GoofyNewfie wrote:

quote=Weddingguy quote=GoofyNewfie quote=skidoo... (show quote)

I never leave home without it . . .