Squeezing the Customer (Page 3): Subscriptions work well when the software works well. If Adobe's software didn't work for me I wouldn't subscribe. I paid the big bucks for Adobe...

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

Subscriptions work well when the software works well. If Adobe's software didn't work for me I wouldn't subscribe. I paid the big bucks for Adobe software before they went into the subscription model because the software worked well for me then. With the subscription, I pay a lot less than I did then.

When I started learning postprocessing I tried a number of software products. DxO was moderately good and I used it for a few months but it gave me problems keeping it running. I dropped it because it didn't work. It wasn't a subscription then but even though a lot of people tout non-subscription products I certainly wouldn't try it now based on past performance. It's not the subscription that makes the difference, it's the quality of the item. If it's cost effective, the fact that it's a subscription is irrelevant.

BebuLamar

fantom wrote:

No argument with what you so accurately said.

But ,the original post tended to condemn the practice of software subscriptions in general rather than referring to the scammers in that industry, so I was taking exception to that stance.

Not to say that I support the subscription model because I don't. However, I know I am the minority and thus I have no choice. In a society the majority make decision. Similarly I don't like online purchasing but the majority like it and thus killing the local stores so I have no place to buy.

PhotogHobbyist Loc: Bradford, PA

jerryc41 wrote:

In case you haven’t noticed, companies are squeezing consumers to see how much money they can get out of them. A popular method is to charge a subscription for software. You pay for the software annually for the rest of your life. But, it’s getting worse.

Car makers are now using subscriptions and other techniques to get more money from buyers. Want heated seats? Fine. You can have them for a year or two, but then you must pay every month. The same thing applies to other features, although this technique has been opposed by consumers through the legal system.

Want a Jeep? Any color but white will cost you $495. This led me to imagine the following scenario.

Salesman: And you’d like the standard “Hot Pink” color?
Customer: Hot Pink? Anything but. I’d like blue.
Sales: Fine. That will be an additional $800.
Cust: What? Make it red, then.
Sales: Any color but Hot Pink will cost $800. It’s the additional setup of the paint booth and all the extra time and labor involved. You understand.
Sales: We’re just about done here. You’ll be supplying your own wheels, then?
Cust: No! The car needs wheels!
Sales: Of course, and we can supply very nice wheels. I’ll just add the $1,000 fee for them.
Sales: Oh, I see that tire vales are included free with wheels this week. You just saved yourself $400! Will you be supplying your own tires?
Cust: No, of course not.
Sales: We will add another $2,000 for tires, then. Now, about the air. The standard pressure we supply is 10 psi. If you would like the recommended pressure of 30 psi, that will cost just $50 per tire.
Cust: Fine.
Sales: I suggest you get here about two hours early to mount the tires on the wheels. That usually takes customers a couple of hours.
Cust: I have to mount them myself?
Sales: Of course not. We can do that for you - and also balance them - for a small fee of just $400 for all four tires.
Cust: You know, up till now, all cars came with wheels and tires.
Sales: Yes, I realize that, but the manufacturers were losing money on every car they sold. You see, Sleezy Motors makes cars, not wheels and tires. We have to buy them, and now we are passing the cost along to the customer. That’s why we offer customers the chance to supply their own wheels and tires.

Ridiculous? Maybe not. Jeep is getting away with charging for paint. When will other companies start doing that? Imagine telling someone in 1990 that he would have to rent all his software, or he would have to pay a monthly fee as long as he owned his car if he wanted the heated seats to keep working.

In case you haven’t noticed, companies are squeezi... (show quote)

The upcharge for extras may have started with Henry Ford when he told people they could get a Model-T in any color they wanted, as long as it was black.

BebuLamar

PhotogHobbyist wrote:

The upcharge for extras may have started with Henry Ford when he told people they could get a Model-T in any color they wanted, as long as it was black.

Not! Henry Ford did that because he didn't want to paint his cars in any other color. He didn't want to charge extra but rather not doing it. He thought the color of the car wasn't important and painting in different colors would be a hindrance to his assembly line. His idea of the assembly line is all of his products are the same. No customization.

Valenta Loc: Top of NZ

Change your dealer

Scruples Loc: Brooklyn, New York

jerryc41 wrote:

In case you haven’t noticed, companies are squeezing consumers to see how much money they can get out of them. A popular method is to charge a subscription for software. You pay for the software annually for the rest of your life. But, it’s getting worse.

Car makers are now using subscriptions and other techniques to get more money from buyers. Want heated seats? Fine. You can have them for a year or two, but then you must pay every month. The same thing applies to other features, although this technique has been opposed by consumers through the legal system.

Want a Jeep? Any color but white will cost you $495. This led me to imagine the following scenario.

Salesman: And you’d like the standard “Hot Pink” color?
Customer: Hot Pink? Anything but. I’d like blue.
Sales: Fine. That will be an additional $800.
Cust: What? Make it red, then.
Sales: Any color but Hot Pink will cost $800. It’s the additional setup of the paint booth and all the extra time and labor involved. You understand.
Sales: We’re just about done here. You’ll be supplying your own wheels, then?
Cust: No! The car needs wheels!
Sales: Of course, and we can supply very nice wheels. I’ll just add the $1,000 fee for them.
Sales: Oh, I see that tire vales are included free with wheels this week. You just saved yourself $400! Will you be supplying your own tires?
Cust: No, of course not.
Sales: We will add another $2,000 for tires, then. Now, about the air. The standard pressure we supply is 10 psi. If you would like the recommended pressure of 30 psi, that will cost just $50 per tire.
Cust: Fine.
Sales: I suggest you get here about two hours early to mount the tires on the wheels. That usually takes customers a couple of hours.
Cust: I have to mount them myself?
Sales: Of course not. We can do that for you - and also balance them - for a small fee of just $400 for all four tires.
Cust: You know, up till now, all cars came with wheels and tires.
Sales: Yes, I realize that, but the manufacturers were losing money on every car they sold. You see, Sleezy Motors makes cars, not wheels and tires. We have to buy them, and now we are passing the cost along to the customer. That’s why we offer customers the chance to supply their own wheels and tires.

Ridiculous? Maybe not. Jeep is getting away with charging for paint. When will other companies start doing that? Imagine telling someone in 1990 that he would have to rent all his software, or he would have to pay a monthly fee as long as he owned his car if he wanted the heated seats to keep working.

In case you haven’t noticed, companies are squeezi... (show quote)

Holy Crap!

I can’t believe what is going on. This scenario is similar to one I had experienced when I bought my first car. It was brand new without a radio. I wanted a specific radio that they did not offer. When I suggested that I would buy it from a separate store, out came a manager telling me that I would violate the car’s warranty. So I called a friend and he said it would be restraint of trade. If the dealership wants to put so many stipulations on the purchase of a car, rack up a huge purchase, get them all hot and bothered and cancel the purchase. Watch their jaw hit the floor!

rcarol

jerryc41 wrote:

In case you haven’t noticed, companies are squeezing consumers to see how much money they can get out of them. A popular method is to charge a subscription for software. You pay for the software annually for the rest of your life. But, it’s getting worse.

Car makers are now using subscriptions and other techniques to get more money from buyers. Want heated seats? Fine. You can have them for a year or two, but then you must pay every month. The same thing applies to other features, although this technique has been opposed by consumers through the legal system.

Want a Jeep? Any color but white will cost you $495. This led me to imagine the following scenario.

Salesman: And you’d like the standard “Hot Pink” color?
Customer: Hot Pink? Anything but. I’d like blue.
Sales: Fine. That will be an additional $800.
Cust: What? Make it red, then.
Sales: Any color but Hot Pink will cost $800. It’s the additional setup of the paint booth and all the extra time and labor involved. You understand.
Sales: We’re just about done here. You’ll be supplying your own wheels, then?
Cust: No! The car needs wheels!
Sales: Of course, and we can supply very nice wheels. I’ll just add the $1,000 fee for them.
Sales: Oh, I see that tire vales are included free with wheels this week. You just saved yourself $400! Will you be supplying your own tires?
Cust: No, of course not.
Sales: We will add another $2,000 for tires, then. Now, about the air. The standard pressure we supply is 10 psi. If you would like the recommended pressure of 30 psi, that will cost just $50 per tire.
Cust: Fine.
Sales: I suggest you get here about two hours early to mount the tires on the wheels. That usually takes customers a couple of hours.
Cust: I have to mount them myself?
Sales: Of course not. We can do that for you - and also balance them - for a small fee of just $400 for all four tires.
Cust: You know, up till now, all cars came with wheels and tires.
Sales: Yes, I realize that, but the manufacturers were losing money on every car they sold. You see, Sleezy Motors makes cars, not wheels and tires. We have to buy them, and now we are passing the cost along to the customer. That’s why we offer customers the chance to supply their own wheels and tires.

Ridiculous? Maybe not. Jeep is getting away with charging for paint. When will other companies start doing that? Imagine telling someone in 1990 that he would have to rent all his software, or he would have to pay a monthly fee as long as he owned his car if he wanted the heated seats to keep working.

In case you haven’t noticed, companies are squeezi... (show quote)

Actually, charging for paint is not a new thing. I remember in the late '40s and early 50s, auto manufacturers would allow you to select a paint color from a competitor's line of autos if you were willing to pay an extra fee.

btbg

jerryc41 wrote:

In case you haven’t noticed, companies are squeezing consumers to see how much money they can get out of them. A popular method is to charge a subscription for software. You pay for the software annually for the rest of your life. But, it’s getting worse.

Car makers are now using subscriptions and other techniques to get more money from buyers. Want heated seats? Fine. You can have them for a year or two, but then you must pay every month. The same thing applies to other features, although this technique has been opposed by consumers through the legal system.

Want a Jeep? Any color but white will cost you $495. This led me to imagine the following scenario.

Salesman: And you’d like the standard “Hot Pink” color?
Customer: Hot Pink? Anything but. I’d like blue.
Sales: Fine. That will be an additional $800.
Cust: What? Make it red, then.
Sales: Any color but Hot Pink will cost $800. It’s the additional setup of the paint booth and all the extra time and labor involved. You understand.
Sales: We’re just about done here. You’ll be supplying your own wheels, then?
Cust: No! The car needs wheels!
Sales: Of course, and we can supply very nice wheels. I’ll just add the $1,000 fee for them.
Sales: Oh, I see that tire vales are included free with wheels this week. You just saved yourself $400! Will you be supplying your own tires?
Cust: No, of course not.
Sales: We will add another $2,000 for tires, then. Now, about the air. The standard pressure we supply is 10 psi. If you would like the recommended pressure of 30 psi, that will cost just $50 per tire.
Cust: Fine.
Sales: I suggest you get here about two hours early to mount the tires on the wheels. That usually takes customers a couple of hours.
Cust: I have to mount them myself?
Sales: Of course not. We can do that for you - and also balance them - for a small fee of just $400 for all four tires.
Cust: You know, up till now, all cars came with wheels and tires.
Sales: Yes, I realize that, but the manufacturers were losing money on every car they sold. You see, Sleezy Motors makes cars, not wheels and tires. We have to buy them, and now we are passing the cost along to the customer. That’s why we offer customers the chance to supply their own wheels and tires.

Ridiculous? Maybe not. Jeep is getting away with charging for paint. When will other companies start doing that? Imagine telling someone in 1990 that he would have to rent all his software, or he would have to pay a monthly fee as long as he owned his car if he wanted the heated seats to keep working.

In case you haven’t noticed, companies are squeezi... (show quote)

Jerry, I know you won't believe this, but I pay a lot less for my software now than I did before it went subscription based. Photoshop was in excess of $750 the last time I purchased it. Of course it went higher than that before they switched to subscription based. If you are using the software professionally you need to upgrade it at least every two or three years. That means at $1,000 to purchase the software versus $120 a year for the subscription you could only upgrade every eight years and four months in order to break even with the subscription. But, on top of that the subscription model updates automatically multiple times a year. As software technology has improved the updates are coming faster and faster. There were so many changes in 2023 that any business would have been forced to update their software at least twice during the year if it wasn't subscription based. I happily pay the $10 a month, because it saves me 100s of dollars as well as giving me state of the art, always updated software.

Timmers Loc: San Antonio Texas.

EdJ0307 wrote:

Just about every time I see a Tesla on the road they are always white - except I did see a red one a few months ago. I was wondering about that. This is probably the reason for that.

Yes! Mr. Henry Ford offered all of his customers his Model T Ford car, "In any color they liked, just as long as it was black".

Red6

jerryc41 wrote:

In case you haven’t noticed, companies are squeezing consumers to see how much money they can get out of them. A popular method is to charge a subscription for software. You pay for the software annually for the rest of your life. But, it’s getting worse.

Car makers are now using subscriptions and other techniques to get more money from buyers. Want heated seats? Fine. You can have them for a year or two, but then you must pay every month. The same thing applies to other features, although this technique has been opposed by consumers through the legal system.

Want a Jeep? Any color but white will cost you $495. This led me to imagine the following scenario.

Salesman: And you’d like the standard “Hot Pink” color?
Customer: Hot Pink? Anything but. I’d like blue.
Sales: Fine. That will be an additional $800.
Cust: What? Make it red, then.
Sales: Any color but Hot Pink will cost $800. It’s the additional setup of the paint booth and all the extra time and labor involved. You understand.
Sales: We’re just about done here. You’ll be supplying your own wheels, then?
Cust: No! The car needs wheels!
Sales: Of course, and we can supply very nice wheels. I’ll just add the $1,000 fee for them.
Sales: Oh, I see that tire vales are included free with wheels this week. You just saved yourself $400! Will you be supplying your own tires?
Cust: No, of course not.
Sales: We will add another $2,000 for tires, then. Now, about the air. The standard pressure we supply is 10 psi. If you would like the recommended pressure of 30 psi, that will cost just $50 per tire.
Cust: Fine.
Sales: I suggest you get here about two hours early to mount the tires on the wheels. That usually takes customers a couple of hours.
Cust: I have to mount them myself?
Sales: Of course not. We can do that for you - and also balance them - for a small fee of just $400 for all four tires.
Cust: You know, up till now, all cars came with wheels and tires.
Sales: Yes, I realize that, but the manufacturers were losing money on every car they sold. You see, Sleezy Motors makes cars, not wheels and tires. We have to buy them, and now we are passing the cost along to the customer. That’s why we offer customers the chance to supply their own wheels and tires.

Ridiculous? Maybe not. Jeep is getting away with charging for paint. When will other companies start doing that? Imagine telling someone in 1990 that he would have to rent all his software, or he would have to pay a monthly fee as long as he owned his car if he wanted the heated seats to keep working.

In case you haven’t noticed, companies are squeezi... (show quote)

I have not purchased a "new" car in decades and at my age now probably never will. There are millions of good used cars out there that do not require you to lease or rent your options. In addition, you save a ton of money since someone else pays that depreciation on the initial purchase.

Also, aftermarket options may be a solution for those that just have to have heated butt warmers. I once knew a guy who added aftermarket upgrades to his diesel truck's computer. By changing out one of the chips in his computer he increased his miles per gallon AND got better acceleration over the standard design. If there is money to be made in adding these features in the aftermarket, someone will design and market it.

Red6

Longshadow wrote:

That plus did one ever think they'd be paying upwards of $1,000 for a phone?

I do the same on phones that I do with cars. I never rent or lease a new phone, I purchase a used unlocked phone a couple of years old for half or less of the new price. These phones are widely available at reasonable prices from those who just "have" to have the latest and greatest. Owning my unlocked phone allows me to pick and choose my carrier without any contracts and pay much less for service. And since almost all phones built in the last few years will work on any carrier, this adds even more flexibility.

I am just now thinking of upgrading to an iPhone 13, which is two models back. A used one can be purchased for half or sometimes a third of what it costs new. And the specs are very close to the newer iPhones, except for the looks and a few features I can live without.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

BebuLamar wrote:

Not! Henry Ford did that because he didn't want to paint his cars in any other color. He didn't want to charge extra but rather not doing it. He thought the color of the car wasn't important and painting in different colors would be a hindrance to his assembly line. His idea of the assembly line is all of his products are the same. No customization.

An automotive guy told me that Ford chose black because it dried fast. True? Who knows.

BebuLamar

jerryc41 wrote:

An automotive guy told me that Ford chose black because it dried fast. True? Who knows.

Perhaps but really he didn't want to cause complexity to his assembly line. He didn't do it trying to charge more if you want it in other colors. That is quite a different from the extra charge paint options car makes are offering now.

alberio Loc: Casa Grande AZ

When I was still doing restoration and mods, the Red paint was always the most expensive of the basic colors. Also Red isn't always Red.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

Jeep is now charging $595 for any color but white. I could have sworn it was $495 at one time.