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Polarizing Filters
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Jan 1, 2024 19:14:50   #
Timmers Loc: San Antonio Texas.
 
jimpitt wrote:
I have a new Zfc with a 24-200 full frame zoom. I have been keeping the polarizing filter on, however I wonder if there are times when it is better to not utilizie the polarizer. Pardon if this is a basic question; I am a serious amateur and still learning about mirrorless. My main topics are dinner parties, sunsets, and landscapes. Thanks.


Little is understood by many photographers about how a polarizer can be used to advantage.

First, understand that there is more to winter tan cold weather. In Summer the earth is further to the sun than in winter. The angle of the earth is different in winter than in summer, and the earth is closer to the sun sun in the winter. It is part the angularity of the sun combined with proximity and the structural structure of earths atmosphere.

When you combine these factors you get a rather fascinating effect. these factors can be used to rather interesting effect. But first you need to un-learn some of the rather pedestrian ideas that are persuaded as 'truth' in photography. Essentially, most workers in photography are caught up in rather 'cherry picked' notions of many principals that are etched in stone. What you need to do is go look and develop independent ideas for principals in photography that are more empirical*. I know, big word. Essentially it means you look ad observe with a new look at what is before you then ignore what you are being told and use your practical experience and then decide what is actually being shown to you.

* empirical:
"based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic."

First, learn about the silly ideas that people will tell you, "Polarizers remove reflections", This is absolutely not true. Take the polarizer off of your camera stand in front of a mirror and rotate the polarizer till your arm hurts. Your reflection stays in full view (unless of course you are a vampire then polarizer or not you will have no reflection what so ever).

Go outside and find an old automobile (or a big trailer hitch with a chrome ball), and look through the polarizer, note that just like a mirror, your reflection stays right there in the chrome mirror surface. The polarizer does NOT remove the reflection in the chrome. You may want to get a chair and get comfortable for this part. Using chrome surfaces or a mirror will do just fine, slowly rotate the polarizer and be empirical, look carefully at the objects that are all around the reflective material in your view. Note that as you rotate the polarizer that there will be some, we lets call it correctly, anomalies they will appear as haze laying between you (the polarizer) and the thighs that you are looking at, as you rotate the polarizer you will observe that this 'haze' will weaken or even be removed mostly.

Now his the part that will kick you in the head, that haze between you (polarizer) and the object (s) will be more pronounced in the shade than in the sunlight! You will need to trust me on this next part, but if you like find a truly deep hole (mine shafts are great fir this) in the ground that you can look up at the sky above you, you will see that there is no blue sky and you can see the blackness of space and loads of stars! (Of course, it only works if your not in a city with loads of polluted air, that is haze).

Of course everyone and you all so are just getting tired of reading all this. Sorry, I'm that actual master photographers who really does know my craft unlike the mostly silly people who think they know the craft!

Basic truths:
Polarizers are NOT filters, they are neutral density attenuators.

Polarizers can be used to manage haze, or scattered polarized light.

In the winter there is a butt load more polarized light tan in summer, in fact the polarized light is quite prevalent compared to summer time.

Here it comes, ready. If you extract the blue light from the sun lighted winter landscape you can reduce the haze in the landscape to such a degree that the landscape will appear to be almost with severally open shadow.

So, how do you do this trick? Remove the blue end of the winter summer sun from the landscape? Mount a polarizer on to your lens. Now add a Wratten (Kodak) no. 12 filter to your lens. No, the old 'G' filter, common know as the Wratten No. 15 filter, will not be enough to remove the blue end of the sunlight. The view you will have and can make as a digital capture or on film (I have done B&W images with this technique many times) and the results are stunning. With digital, there is no way I know to put the blue back into a color image, bit you can convert the final image to a great B&W.

Deep technical note for those who love technology, circular and linear polarizers have the same effect with photography... BUT ...of not, on a view camera you can mount the filter and polarizer inside the camera on the rear of the lens cell, you will find that when the Wratten 12 is used with a circular polarizer, the effect is lost, why I do not know. Linear polarizers work on the camera normally when mounted on the rear or front cell.

Reply
Jan 1, 2024 19:24:14   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
BebuLamar wrote:
You can use the polarizer to emphasize the reflections too.


Reply
Jan 1, 2024 20:04:33   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
Timmers wrote:
Little is understood by many photographers about how a polarizer can be used to advantage.

First, understand that there is more to winter tan cold weather. In Summer the earth is further to the sun than in winter. The angle of the earth is different in winter than in summer, and the earth is closer to the sun sun in the winter. It is part the angularity of the sun combined with proximity and the structural structure of earths atmosphere.

When you combine these factors you get a rather fascinating effect. these factors can be used to rather interesting effect. But first you need to un-learn some of the rather pedestrian ideas that are persuaded as 'truth' in photography. Essentially, most workers in photography are caught up in rather 'cherry picked' notions of many principals that are etched in stone. What you need to do is go look and develop independent ideas for principals in photography that are more empirical*. I know, big word. Essentially it means you look ad observe with a new look at what is before you then ignore what you are being told and use your practical experience and then decide what is actually being shown to you.

* empirical:
"based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic."

First, learn about the silly ideas that people will tell you, "Polarizers remove reflections", This is absolutely not true. Take the polarizer off of your camera stand in front of a mirror and rotate the polarizer till your arm hurts. Your reflection stays in full view (unless of course you are a vampire then polarizer or not you will have no reflection what so ever).

Go outside and find an old automobile (or a big trailer hitch with a chrome ball), and look through the polarizer, note that just like a mirror, your reflection stays right there in the chrome mirror surface. The polarizer does NOT remove the reflection in the chrome. You may want to get a chair and get comfortable for this part. Using chrome surfaces or a mirror will do just fine, slowly rotate the polarizer and be empirical, look carefully at the objects that are all around the reflective material in your view. Note that as you rotate the polarizer that there will be some, we lets call it correctly, anomalies they will appear as haze laying between you (the polarizer) and the thighs that you are looking at, as you rotate the polarizer you will observe that this 'haze' will weaken or even be removed mostly.

Now his the part that will kick you in the head, that haze between you (polarizer) and the object (s) will be more pronounced in the shade than in the sunlight! You will need to trust me on this next part, but if you like find a truly deep hole (mine shafts are great fir this) in the ground that you can look up at the sky above you, you will see that there is no blue sky and you can see the blackness of space and loads of stars! (Of course, it only works if your not in a city with loads of polluted air, that is haze).

Of course everyone and you all so are just getting tired of reading all this. Sorry, I'm that actual master photographers who really does know my craft unlike the mostly silly people who think they know the craft!

Basic truths:
Polarizers are NOT filters, they are neutral density attenuators.

Polarizers can be used to manage haze, or scattered polarized light.

In the winter there is a butt load more polarized light tan in summer, in fact the polarized light is quite prevalent compared to summer time.

Here it comes, ready. If you extract the blue light from the sun lighted winter landscape you can reduce the haze in the landscape to such a degree that the landscape will appear to be almost with severally open shadow.

So, how do you do this trick? Remove the blue end of the winter summer sun from the landscape? Mount a polarizer on to your lens. Now add a Wratten (Kodak) no. 12 filter to your lens. No, the old 'G' filter, common know as the Wratten No. 15 filter, will not be enough to remove the blue end of the sunlight. The view you will have and can make as a digital capture or on film (I have done B&W images with this technique many times) and the results are stunning. With digital, there is no way I know to put the blue back into a color image, bit you can convert the final image to a great B&W.

Deep technical note for those who love technology, circular and linear polarizers have the same effect with photography... BUT ...of not, on a view camera you can mount the filter and polarizer inside the camera on the rear of the lens cell, you will find that when the Wratten 12 is used with a circular polarizer, the effect is lost, why I do not know. Linear polarizers work on the camera normally when mounted on the rear or front cell.
Little is understood by many photographers about h... (show quote)


I tried this, but by the time I finished reading the damn bird flew away.

---

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Jan 1, 2024 20:06:33   #
Dan' de Bourgogne
 
jimpitt wrote:
I have a new Zfc with a 24-200 full frame zoom. I have been keeping the polarizing filter on, however I wonder if there are times when it is better to not utilizie the polarizer. Pardon if this is a basic question; I am a serious amateur and still learning about mirrorless. My main topics are dinner parties, sunsets, and landscapes. Thanks.


"Bill-de" wrote, polarizer does dimm the light by 1 up to 2 stops (depending on angle incidence, direction).
He is right.
As long a slow S.S. is allowed...(or high ISO, or wide open aperture), one can leave the pol' filter on the lens when shooting outside: it oftens help to saturate a little bit the colors.
But when shooting parties "inside", there is probably no obvious benefit to have the pol' filter on the lens, except if you need to "erase" a disturbing reflection (waxed+polished wooden floor, shiny windows, etc.)
I often use a pol' filter...quite always for landscapes...or when I want to take a picture shot from the street through the shop window.
But when shooting inside, I believe I have never used a pol' filter...or I forgot to screw it off!
That said, reflex and mirrorless cameras react the same way regarding polarizisation: a scene shot with a Canon EOS R6 (mirrorless)+CPL will look like the same scene shot with a Nikon D810 (reflex)+CPL.
If You set (turn) the CPL the same way in either case, You will get identical images.

Be aware: using a CPL on a wide angle lens can produce "strange" skies on a sunny day: almost black in a corner and quasi white on the opposite corner....and dark blue/blue/light blue in between!
Don't hesitate to set the "Exposure Compensation"with +0,66 stop: often, using a CPL produces images which are a bit too dark if the pol' effect has been set at its max.
Hope this helps

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Jan 1, 2024 20:23:00   #
User ID
 
Timmers wrote:
.............................
Deep technical note for those who love technology, circular and linear polarizers have the same effect with photography... BUT ...of not, on a view camera you can mount the filter and polarizer inside the camera on the rear of the lens cell, you will find that when the Wratten 12 is used with a circular polarizer, the effect is lost, why I do not know. Linear polarizers work on the camera normally when mounted on the rear or front cell.

Theres no reason whatsoever for a CPL on a view camera, regardless where its mounted. Perhaps an LPL would be better if you really need both a PL and a #12 ?

(BTW you surely dont mean "on the rear of the front cell" ... where the iris and shutter blades live ?)

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Jan 1, 2024 20:42:08   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
jimpitt wrote:
I have a new Zfc with a 24-200 full frame zoom. I have been keeping the polarizing filter on, however I wonder if there are times when it is better to not utilizie the polarizer. Pardon if this is a basic question; I am a serious amateur and still learning about mirrorless. My main topics are dinner parties, sunsets, and landscapes. Thanks.


Perhaps only use when needed is best. Loss of light can be detrimental in many situations. Look up when to use and there are many writings on the subject.
Ask, what purpose is this the filter on for?
If you answer you don't know then take it off.
Very subjective and only you can answer.
Have fun.

Reply
Jan 1, 2024 22:17:37   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Perhaps only use when needed is best. Loss of light can be detrimental in many situations. Look up when to use and there are many writings on the subject.
Ask, what purpose is this the filter on for?
If you answer you don't know then take it off.
Very subjective and only you can answer.
Have fun.


Best answer

---

Reply
 
 
Jan 2, 2024 00:29:41   #
imagextrordinair Loc: Halden, Norway
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Why have a polarizing filter at all? And at all times? I find mine virtually worthless, and rarely ever use, even though I do have clear or UV filters on my lenses at all times.

Other than some landscape situations, none of your other intended uses really suggest a benefit of a CPL.


Excellent advice for 98 percent of all photography scenario's but, the polarize filter is crucial and necessary in one specific area... automotive photography.

Adjustments or manipulations can take time to understand and master, and the outcome can be significant. Images can be stacked in post-editing to remove reflections from multiple angles and the highlights can be adjusted in dozens of ways for the best look with painted surfaces, indoor or out.

The most expensive filters can cost over $500, like in the slide-in type for a Canon 200mm f2.0L is.

a Polarize filter is misunderstood by many and has little value most times, but is critical in controlling light on hard surfaces. That said, a CPL can be a very effective tool... a CPL is UV filter in a way for me, so I can't make negative comments about that school of wisdom.

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Jan 2, 2024 00:46:35   #
TonyP Loc: New Zealand
 
BebuLamar wrote:
You can use the polarizer to emphasize the reflections too.

Longshadow wrote:


Nope.

Reply
Jan 2, 2024 02:30:17   #
ecurb Loc: Metro Chicago Area
 
jimpitt wrote:
I have a new Zfc with a 24-200 full frame zoom. I have been keeping the polarizing filter on, however I wonder if there are times when it is better to not utilizie the polarizer. Pardon if this is a basic question; I am a serious amateur and still learning about mirrorless. My main topics are dinner parties, sunsets, and landscapes. Thanks.


I never keep a filter on a lens unless I have a specific effect/reason to use the filter. I prefer a hard lens shade to protect the front element.

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Jan 2, 2024 03:27:16   #
Orphoto Loc: Oregon
 
1. Dinner parties. Almost certainly remove. No advantage and you need the speed.
2. Sunsets/sunrises. If pointing generally toward the sun and shooting the sky, remove. If turned sideways to the sun shooting light raking across the scene, possibly - but only at focal lengths longer than about 30mm.
3. Landscapes. Same as 2 except use if wishing to remove reflective sheen from vegetation or flowing water. Twist to minimize effect if you have a rainbow.

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Jan 2, 2024 05:35:46   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
CHG-Canon wrote: "Other than some landscape situations, none of your other intended uses really suggest a benefit of a CPL."

I have to disagree Paul. It has already been mentioned but I will repeat it once more, a polarizer is a very useful filter for landscapes, mainly to darken the sky and saturate colors, to eliminate or suppress reflections from non metallic surfaces, to enhance fall foliage and I have used it as a 2 stops ND when shooting waterfalls. Like others here I do not recommend to keep it on the lens all the time but only when necessary. I almost forgot to mention that the filter should be cleaned if necessary before use and its use with a wide angle can cause partial polarization of the sky.

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Jan 2, 2024 05:40:39   #
BebuLamar
 
TonyP wrote:
BebuLamar wrote:
You can use the polarizer to emphasize the reflections too.



Nope.


Why not? You turn it in some way the reflection is weakest and 90 degrees from that the reflection is strongest.

Reply
Jan 2, 2024 06:26:22   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Why not? You turn it in some way the reflection is weakest and 90 degrees from that the reflection is strongest.


The polarizer only reduces the reflection. It does not reduce the unpolarized light preferentially, so turning it to 90 degrees from the weakest reflection will give you what you would see without any polarizer at all.

Reply
Jan 2, 2024 06:30:43   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
jimpitt wrote:
I have a new Zfc with a 24-200 full frame zoom. I have been keeping the polarizing filter on, however I wonder if there are times when it is better to not utilizie the polarizer. Pardon if this is a basic question; I am a serious amateur and still learning about mirrorless. My main topics are dinner parties, sunsets, and landscapes. Thanks.


I would not use a polarizing filter inside, makes viewing too dark for my taste. A polarizing filter would not be good for everything.
You might find it helpful to watch the following.
https://artlist.io/blog/camera-polarizer-lens-filter/#:~:text=You%20should%20use%20a%20polarizing,that%20will%20distract%20the%20audience.

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