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Are we shooting ourselves in the foot
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Dec 10, 2023 05:46:45   #
Bob Smith Loc: Banjarmasin
 
After the Christmas present to Putin cancellation of backing for the Ukraine are we letting Putin win, and then when he has won will he after success regroup and carry on to Latvia and the other Baltic states that are in NATO and then the US will have to get involved. At the moment someone else is doing the dying and fighting for us instead of our troops being killed and maimed. Surely it's better to back Ukraine now where the cost will be considerably less than a future conflict which would be considerably more expensive in both money and lives.

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Dec 10, 2023 08:46:34   #
Caribou Loc: St. Louis, MO
 
Bob Smith wrote:
After the Christmas present to Putin cancellation of backing for the Ukraine are we letting Putin win, and then when he has won will he after success regroup and carry on to Latvia and the other Baltic states that are in NATO and then the US will have to get involved. At the moment someone else is doing the dying and fighting for us instead of our troops being killed and maimed. Surely it's better to back Ukraine now where the cost will be considerably less than a future conflict which would be considerably more expensive in both money and lives.
After the Christmas present to Putin cancellation ... (show quote)


This is a tough problem. I support Ukraine's effort to defeat Putin and I don't see us ever getting involved directly in there but I think Putin has decided he can outlast Ukraine in a war of attrition. And he's willing to do it because he probably can. In the meantime, we have enough problems of our own. We can't keep printing money. But I'm not an isolationist. As you point out, that could lead NATO (therefore, us) into a major conflict. I'm hoping there is some serious behind-the-scenes diplomacy taking place. I think Ukraine should let Russia keep Crimea. We did nothing to stop it when they took it during Obama's presidency. But let Russia know that any attempt on their part to go further will be met again with strong resistance. If Putin is genuinely concerned about a NATO presence right at his western border maybe something could be done to assure him that we (NATO) would never be the aggressor. I do understand their old concern about invasion. Russia has been invaded before.

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Dec 10, 2023 13:53:20   #
srg
 
Bob Smith wrote:
After the Christmas present to Putin cancellation of backing for the Ukraine are we letting Putin win, and then when he has won will he after success regroup and carry on to Latvia and the other Baltic states that are in NATO and then the US will have to get involved. At the moment someone else is doing the dying and fighting for us instead of our troops being killed and maimed. Surely it's better to back Ukraine now where the cost will be considerably less than a future conflict which would be considerably more expensive in both money and lives.
After the Christmas present to Putin cancellation ... (show quote)


I would prefer that we mind our own business and spend our money fixing problems at home.
Being policeman of the world is a thankless job, and just creates huge unsolvable problems for us.

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Dec 10, 2023 18:28:02   #
Shutterbug1697 Loc: Northeast
 
srg wrote:
I would prefer that we mind our own business and spend our money fixing problems at home.
Being policeman of the world is a thankless job, and just creates huge unsolvable problems for us.

In the case of the ILLEGAL invasion into Ukraine by Russia, the money we're using to support Ukraine is money well spent.

If we don't back our European allies, what's to stop Russia's further invasion into Europe, or even an unprovoked attack on the United States?

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Dec 11, 2023 06:43:51   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
Shutterbug1697 wrote:
In the case of the ILLEGAL invasion into Ukraine by Russia, the money we're using to support Ukraine is money well spent.

If we don't back our European allies, what's to stop Russia's further invasion into Europe, or even an unprovoked attack on the United States?


While I agree 100% with supporting Ukraine in its war with Russia I cannot help but wonder, why does it always have to be America that steps in to solve these Not directly American problems. My first thought when Russia invaded Ukraine was, this is in the early 2000's, this can't be happening. Even today, after so long, where is the United Nations? Where is the rest of the world, all the world, jumping on Russia to protest its invasion of another country, no matter how important Putin thinks it is for Russia to have its original borders.

Has Biden or any other country issued sanctions against Russia?

Where is the American ability to check up on the Billions of dollars sent to Ukraine and whether it is used for the purpose of defending Ukraine OR is being siphoned off by Ukraine politicians to purchase mega dollar sports cars, homes in the rest of the world, vacations to far parts of the globe and so on. Certainly most if not all of us have heard of the corruption from Ukraine with American tax dollars. Is anybody checking on this? The leader of Ukraine comes to America, visits the House and Senate sucking up to the American politicians and PRESTO, more Billions flow to Ukraine.

Dennis

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Dec 11, 2023 07:37:57   #
Shutterbug1697 Loc: Northeast
 
dennis2146 wrote:
While I agree 100% with supporting Ukraine in its war with Russia I cannot help but wonder, why does it always have to be America that steps in to solve these Not directly American problems. My first thought when Russia invaded Ukraine was, this is in the early 2000's, this can't be happening. Even today, after so long, where is the United Nations? Where is the rest of the world, all the world, jumping on Russia to protest its invasion of another country, no matter how important Putin thinks it is for Russia to have its original borders.

Has Biden or any other country issued sanctions against Russia?

Where is the American ability to check up on the Billions of dollars sent to Ukraine and whether it is used for the purpose of defending Ukraine OR is being siphoned off by Ukraine politicians to purchase mega dollar sports cars, homes in the rest of the world, vacations to far parts of the globe and so on. Certainly most if not all of us have heard of the corruption from Ukraine with American tax dollars. Is anybody checking on this? The leader of Ukraine comes to America, visits the House and Senate sucking up to the American politicians and PRESTO, more Billions flow to Ukraine.

Dennis
While I agree 100% with supporting Ukraine in its ... (show quote)

Let me correct you on one detail, it's NOT Russia's "original borders", it's Putin trying to put the USSR back together.

Russia never lost its "original borders", they took over a bunch of smaller countries or republics on December 30, 1922.

The UN has been hampered because Russia has veto power in the UN General Assembly, as does China.

The "rest of the world" which supports Ukraine has been doing it's best to push back against Russia. President Biden brought together the NATO member nations to provide support to Ukraine by supplying them with weapons and ammunition. Unfortunately that support is starting to wane as the war drags on.

Where have you been with regards to sanctions against Russia and Russian Oligarchs?

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0650#:~:text=WASHINGTON%20%E2%80%93%20Today%2C%20the%20U.S.%20Department,brutal%20and%20illegal%20invasion%20of

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/el/ip_22_1828

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/30/russian-oligarchs-lose-95bn-in-2022-amid-sanctions-after-ukraine-war

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/russian-oligarch-oleg-vladimirovich-deripaska-and-associates-indicted-sanctions-evasion-and

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-sanctions-oligarchs-money-laundering-766fa10695ee7bb20175a474028ee562

There are ways for the US and our alies to check up on their support to Ukraine.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-war-60-minutes-tracking-us-weapons-and-money/

https://www.csis.org/analysis/past-present-and-future-us-assistance-ukraine-deep-dive-data

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Dec 11, 2023 08:21:55   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
Shutterbug1697 wrote:
Let me correct you on one detail, it's NOT Russia's "original borders", it's Putin trying to put the USSR back together.

Russia never lost its "original borders", they took over a bunch of smaller countries or republics on December 30, 1922.

The UN has been hampered because Russia has veto power in the UN General Assembly, as does China.

The "rest of the world" which supports Ukraine has been doing it's best to push back against Russia. President Biden brought together the NATO member nations to provide support to Ukraine by supplying them with weapons and ammunition. Unfortunately that support is starting to wane as the war drags on.

Where have you been with regards to sanctions against Russia and Russian Oligarchs?

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0650#:~:text=WASHINGTON%20%E2%80%93%20Today%2C%20the%20U.S.%20Department,brutal%20and%20illegal%20invasion%20of

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/el/ip_22_1828

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/30/russian-oligarchs-lose-95bn-in-2022-amid-sanctions-after-ukraine-war

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/russian-oligarch-oleg-vladimirovich-deripaska-and-associates-indicted-sanctions-evasion-and

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-sanctions-oligarchs-money-laundering-766fa10695ee7bb20175a474028ee562

There are ways for the US and our alies to check up on their support to Ukraine.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-war-60-minutes-tracking-us-weapons-and-money/

https://www.csis.org/analysis/past-present-and-future-us-assistance-ukraine-deep-dive-data
Let me correct you on one detail, it's NOT Russia'... (show quote)


You have corrected me on a small detail to be sure. No problem. As for sanctions, so the rich people in Russia are having their yachts taken away etc. The money given to Ukraine is a pittance. Where are sanctions from European countries, where is something with power enough to make Putin sit back on his heels and really take notice? I don't see it. Do you?

As for 60 Minutes checking to be sure all is well on the corruption of politicians front, I see nothing at all from that report. Yes, some serial numbers of rockets etc. can be provided and of course there are the rockets just as thought. But we are giving Ukraine BILLIONS of dollars. Please tell me you do not also think many politicians are not buying expensive sports cars, condos, vacations abroad, yachts and so on. Come on, pilfering Millions out of BILLIONS seems like school kid stuff and I think it is. I have also heard our American BILLIONS are paying into the retirement benefits of the Ukrainian politicians. Have you heard any of this? If true then what do you think about it?

Sure I can see funding ammunition, firearms and other war materiel but surely not the retirement account of politicians. Surely the Ukrainian politicians can absorb a bit of unpleasantness especially when American funds are essentially preserving their place to live.

Dennis

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Dec 11, 2023 09:43:03   #
DennyT Loc: Central Missouri woods
 
dennis2146 wrote:
You have corrected me on a small detail to be sure. No problem. As for sanctions, so the rich people in Russia are having their yachts taken away etc. The money given to Ukraine is a pittance. Where are sanctions from European countries, where is something with power enough to make Putin sit back on his heels and really take notice? I don't see it. Do you?

As for 60 Minutes checking to be sure all is well on the corruption of politicians front, I see nothing at all from that report. Yes, some serial numbers of rockets etc. can be provided and of course there are the rockets just as thought. But we are giving Ukraine BILLIONS of dollars. Please tell me you do not also think many politicians are not buying expensive sports cars, condos, vacations abroad, yachts and so on. Come on, pilfering Millions out of BILLIONS seems like school kid stuff and I think it is. I have also heard our American BILLIONS are paying into the retirement benefits of the Ukrainian politicians. Have you heard any of this? If true then what do you think about it?

Sure I can see funding ammunition, firearms and other war materiel but surely not the retirement account of politicians. Surely the Ukrainian politicians can absorb a bit of unpleasantness especially when American funds are essentially preserving their place to live.

Dennis
You have corrected me on a small detail to be sure... (show quote)


You ask about Europe Russia sanctions

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/sanctions/restrictive-measures-against-russia-over-ukraine/sanctions-against-russia-explained/

And others

https://www.castellum.ai/insights/which-countries-are-taking-action-on-ukraine

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Dec 11, 2023 10:05:06   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 


Well thanks lil denny for once posting something worthwhile.

Dennis

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Dec 11, 2023 10:07:34   #
Kraken Loc: Barry's Bay
 
dennis2146 wrote:
Well thanks lil denny for once posting something worthwhile.

Dennis


You should try it sometime.

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Dec 11, 2023 10:14:41   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
Kraken wrote:
You should try it sometime.


Your post reminds me exactly of your sister, the little princess who just a couple of days ago stated it was me who was always jumping and saying, Me too, Me too. But as I pointed out then to her, and tell you now, it truly IS the Left who jumps in with horse shit just as you just did, NOT the Right. Congratulations on once AGAIN proving me correct and you just a LOSER.

Don't you get tired of LOSING to a much superior group of people than you on the lying corrupt Left Wing, Conservatives? It sure seems like at least you would give up in frustration. But nope, you love having a title, any title, LOSER.

Dennis

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Dec 11, 2023 13:26:06   #
srg
 
Shutterbug1697 wrote:
In the case of the ILLEGAL invasion into Ukraine by Russia, the money we're using to support Ukraine is money well spent.

If we don't back our European allies, what's to stop Russia's further invasion into Europe, or even an unprovoked attack on the United States?


If we got attacked by the Soviet Union or any other country, I would enlist, even at my age and fight to the death. In the meantime, I still think we are better off minding our own business. If we don't there may not be much to defend here.

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Dec 11, 2023 14:03:32   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
srg wrote:
If we got attacked by the Soviet Union or any other country, I would enlist, even at my age and fight to the death. In the meantime, I still think we are better off minding our own business. If we don't there may not be much to defend here.


Do you have prior military experience OR would this be the first time you would enlist/serve?

With no prior military experience you would not enlist but are simply running your mouth. You tell us, even at my age. I suspect that is over the allowable age to enlist. How easy to tell us what you would do when most likely you NEVER did in the past.

Tell us what branch you served with, when and where. If you did honorably serve then I will be the first to apologize.

Who, when and where?

Dennis

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Dec 11, 2023 22:59:13   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
dennis2146 wrote:
Your post reminds me exactly of your sister, the little princess who just a couple of days ago stated it was me who was always jumping and saying, Me too, Me too. But as I pointed out then to her, and tell you now, it truly IS the Left who jumps in with horse shit just as you just did, NOT the Right. Congratulations on once AGAIN proving me correct and you just a LOSER.

Don't you get tired of LOSING to a much superior group of people than you on the lying corrupt Left Wing, Conservatives? It sure seems like at least you would give up in frustration. But nope, you love having a title, any title, LOSER.

Dennis
Your post reminds me exactly of your sister, the l... (show quote)


Actually you are showing your lack of reading comprehension once again I said that about the alleged pharmacist who jumps up and says me to, whenever you post something. If I accidently posted it to you (I don't think I did) I didn't mean to.

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Dec 12, 2023 03:04:18   #
Bob Smith Loc: Banjarmasin
 
Just a reminder Putin must think the US resolve is fading and if he sees a weakness he will exploit it. Don't forget the US is a member of NATO and will have to assist any NATO allies that are attacked unless the US ignores the treaty. We are lucky someone else is fighting what is basically our war against Putin. I'm sure any of you guys who have served and been in a genuine live fire situation will appreciate that we don't want our kids or grandkids to experience it. Just remembered what a looney tune fanatic Putin.

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