Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
I'm confused about iso
Page <prev 2 of 34 next> last>>
Nov 17, 2023 07:46:21   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
ISO with film: relative sensitivity to light of the emulsion.
ISO with digital: relative sensitivity to light of the sensor.
Regardless of the side affects each had relative to the media.
Don't need to analyze the crap out of it.

They could have used "<sensor> sensitivity" for digital,
but then people would be complaining that they dropped ISO....

Reply
Nov 17, 2023 08:02:33   #
BebuLamar
 
Longshadow wrote:
ISO with film: relative light sensitivity to light of the emulsion.
ISO with digital: relative light sensitivity to light of the sensor.
Regardless of the side affects each had relative to the media.
Don't need to analyze the crap out of it.

They could have used "<sensor> sensitivity" for digital,
but then people would be complaining that they dropped ISO....


Oh it is the sensitvity of the sensor but ISO is the unit. Of course they could invent new unit if they want to.

Reply
Nov 17, 2023 08:10:37   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
Longshadow wrote:
ISO with film: relative sensitivity to light of the emulsion.
ISO with digital: relative sensitivity to light of the sensor.

Relative sensitivity to light of the camera's output image (JPEG). Camera ISO values do not apply to the sensor.
Longshadow wrote:
Regardless of the side affects each had relative to the media.
Don't need to analyze the crap out of it.

Absolutely! To maintain a state of unanalyzed bliss do NOT read this linked article: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/9698391814/the-ins-and-outs-of-iso-what-is-iso
Longshadow wrote:
They could have used "<sensor> sensitivity" for digital,
but then people would be complaining that they dropped ISO....

Reply
 
 
Nov 17, 2023 08:11:01   #
ELNikkor
 
Just glad I don't have to switch bodies and lenses like I was constantly doing when I needed different ISO's on my film assignments, (not to mention mediums of B&W, slide & print!).

Reply
Nov 17, 2023 08:15:33   #
MCHUGH Loc: Jacksonville, Texas
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Bill - all digital cameras capture at their own 'base ISO'. Most cameras this is ISO-100, some might be higher, such as ISO-125, some all the way to ISO-200. The image is then amplified (or downgraded) to the ISO specified by the exposure setting, either the human or the camera's calculation. The numbers below the base ISO are just more trickery of digital photography, not the 'base ISO' of the camera. How each camera does this is proprietary. The only issue is the result maps to the ISO international standard -- International Organization for Standardization, a nongovernmental organization that publishes standards.

So, the base ISO is the unamplified sensitivity of your camera’s sensor. Your reference to the lower values, below ISO-100 are not the base, unless confirmed by the manufacturer. ISO-080, 60, 50 are 'expanded' values. These expanded values reduce the dynamic range capability of the camera, just a values higher than the camera's normal range, such as higher than ISO-3200, check your individual user manual. When you use a lower ISO setting than your base (i.e. ISO 50 instead of ISO 100) such as to achieve a slower shutter speed, your camera sensor will digitally expose your image at ISO 100, and then the processor will reduce that exposure to simulate what it would look like at ISO-050.

The result? You can potentially lose contrast and detail in the highlights and reduce your overall dynamic range since the image is purposefully overexposed. Highlights that are on the cusp of being clipped at ISO-100, when you meter the scene, will likely be blown-out from the exposure being brought down.
Bill - all digital cameras capture at their own 'b... (show quote)


If I am understanding you correctly you need to set exposure at the base ISO for the best image, only to change if you need lower or higher for the effect you want in the final image. Am I correct?

Reply
Nov 17, 2023 08:17:43   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Ysarex wrote:
Relative sensitivity to light of the camera's output image (JPEG). Camera ISO values do not apply to the sensor.

In both cases, the resultant final "output", regardless of the mechanism of how it is accomplished......
ISO applies to the "process". Just a simpler process with film. Simpler to say "sensor" with digital, a more involved process.

Keep splittin them hairs.....
(Math isn't the only thing where one tries to express things in the simplest form...)

Reply
Nov 17, 2023 08:32:59   #
BebuLamar
 
Any way ISO is pretty much a secret standard because in order to read it you have to buy a copy (I think it's $129 or so) and then you're not allowed to post it for others to see either. So few of us would really know how it's defined. And if you do you're not allowed to tell others.

Reply
 
 
Nov 17, 2023 08:39:27   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
Longshadow wrote:
In both cases, the resultant final "output", regardless of the mechanism of how it is accomplished......
ISO applies to the "process". Just a simpler process with film. Simpler to say "sensor" with digital, a more involved process.

Why is it simpler to say sensor instead of JPEG?
Longshadow wrote:
Keep splittin them hairs.....
(Math isn't the only thing where one tries to express things in the simplest form...)

Reply
Nov 17, 2023 08:43:01   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Any way ISO is pretty much a secret standard because in order to read it you have to buy a copy (I think it's $129 or so) and then you're not allowed to post it for others to see either. So few of us would really know how it's defined. And if you do you're not allowed to tell others.

There's no proscription against explaining it to others. You just can't copy it verbatim -- same as any copyrighted material.

Reply
Nov 17, 2023 08:47:19   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
WDCash wrote:
Recient conversations and articles about the new Sony A9iii have me wondering if I understand the meaning of ISO and spicificly "base ISO" as it relates to modern digital cameras.
First off
Iso, from film days, must have been an standardized across all film manufacturers. (?) As I understand it, ISO had to do with a films sensitivity to light which was based, I think, on the "grain size ?" of the silver halide crystals. Larger crystals captured more light and also led to the Grainess of higher iso films.

In digital photography the ISO is an amplification of the light signal captured by the sensor.
The sensor captures whatever photons it captures but the electronics in the camera amplify (gain) the signal as we turn up the ISO.
I'm sure I'm going to be seriously corrected on all of this, which is why I'm asking.
Here is where the confusion for me starts
If ISO is a carry over term from film, what exactly is a "Base ISO" of a particular camera. Spicificly,
Why does Nikon use a base ISO of 64, Canon 100, Olympus 200 and Now Sony a9ii 240? And I may be wrong about some of these Base ISOs but I hope you get my question.
To the photographer, what difference do these numbers really make?
Am I to understand that Nikon's ISO 64 is its cleanest, least distorted but also less light sensitive then say Canons ISO 100? That Olympus and now Sony are using sensors that are more sensitive (their base sensitivity), collecting more light comparatively at their respective base ISO and producing their cleanest "recording" of that collection?
Please explain.
Recient conversations and articles about the new S... (show quote)


Hmmmm, No. Bill, I am pretty sure CHG_CANON is correct and gave a good explanation. It is my understanding as well. For what is is worth, Pentax cameras have a Base-ISO of 200. And with expanded ISO settings I can go lower to 100 or 80. But as CHG_CANON says, the dynamic range goes down. My guess then is that the Noise goes down too but where the manufacturer(s) feel it is totally un-necessary. And as you set the ISO above the base-ISO, say 400 or 800 the dynamic range goes up with sensitivity but the noise may go up as well. But 400 or 800 have virtually no effect on noise in a newer / modern digital camera. There is no harm in asking.

Reply
Nov 17, 2023 08:48:08   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Ysarex wrote:
Why is it simpler to say sensor instead of JPEG?

Many don't save JPEGs....
but they save the resultant image,
from the sensor.

Reply
 
 
Nov 17, 2023 08:51:03   #
BebuLamar
 
Ysarex wrote:
There's no proscription against explaining it to others. You just can't copy it verbatim -- same as any copyrighted material.


I have never run accross anyone who described exactly how to rate a sensor ISO.

Reply
Nov 17, 2023 08:55:16   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I have never run accross anyone who described exactly how to rate a sensor ISO.

That's probably because to most the minute details do not matter.
They simply know what it does, and how to apply it to their need.

Reply
Nov 17, 2023 08:58:07   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
Ysarex wrote:
Sensor's don't have assigned ISO values. The ISO value set on your camera does not apply to the camera's sensor it applies to the output image created by the camera -- typically a JPEG. Both the SOS and REI ISO standards used by our cameras apply only to the camera generated output image.


Thank you for this additional information. I checked, my Pentax cameras are SOS.

Reply
Nov 17, 2023 08:58:52   #
BebuLamar
 
Longshadow wrote:
That's probably because to most the minute details do not matter.
They simply know what it does, and how to apply it to their need.


As much as I try to research on the subject (besides paying for a copy of the standard, I am cheap) I learned that the standard allows for the manufacturers to rate the ISO in at least 5 different ways and the results can be greatly different.

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 34 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.