Irre levant (Page 2): I agree here. Valid point.

Wingpilot Loc: Wasilla. Ak

R.G. wrote:

The definitions are simple enough. What are not s... (show quote)

I agree here. Valid point.

Real Nikon Lover Loc: Simi Valley, CA

I had cataracts removed. So is what I am now seeing really what I am seeing? Different light, colors, tones, hues, saturation. If I get hearing aids will I really be hearing what the music sounds like or just the interpretation of a mechanical device? Irrelevant because I can see and hear something again that is pleasing to my brain.

I love may wife to pieces after being with her nearly 38 years. Will the fact that I can see her aging more clearly, and hear her gabbing more clearly make me like her any less? Irrelevant. Blind and deaf I would love her even more.

And that brings up the question of A.I. and how we embrace it and the artistic pieces it will produce. Will we love it, hate it or enjoy what good it can do for us? Or shall we sink away into debauchery through its use, letting it destroy us because it realizes and "feels" we are irrelevant and a threat to its very developing existence?

Maybe its too early to think about this on Sunday, a day of God. Oh wait, A.I. does it believe in God or dismiss it as just another data input driven by statistics?

Art or Science or both?

https://youtu.be/nnboHTfYsfk?si=6hqgHcPZQbxR7UxR

one_eyed_pete Loc: Colonie NY

Harry13 wrote:

"Not only is the use vs non-use of a camera i... (show quote)

Speaking of music, I seem to remember controversy/criticism, in days gone by, over portions of music tracks generated with synthesizers rather than specific instruments. I tend to only focus on the end result and decide if I like listening to the sounds.

pendennis

Curmudgeon wrote:

I have to say it once again, my camera has never, not even once. captured the image I saw. Ever since I bought my first scanner, long before I bought my first digital camera, Photoshop has allowed me to show the world what I really saw.

Amen!! When I shot film, I hardly ever got the results I envisioned when I took the picture. Whether I used print film, transparency, litho, etc. The closest I came was with the old Cibachrome method. The worst images were transparencies which were "internegged". The increased contrast was an anathema to my eyes.

However, the envisioned world changed drastically when I converted those images to digital. I bought a good scanner, and tinkered with software until I got an image that I could recognize. I also realized that scanner software was another variable in the mix. Not every software designer uses common algorithms, so I used the scanning software that got me closest to my ideal image; then off to "Adobe" for finalizing.

Even now, shooting nothing but digital, I always have to edit. Either the dynamic range of the sensor doesn't cover my needs, or (don't tell anyone) I may have erred.

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

zonedoc wrote:

The late great photographer Ansel Adams ( who was also a classically trained pianist ) often likened a photograph to a musical score to be interpreted by the musician (photographer ).
His photographs were “previsualized” so as to make post processing a creation of his interpretation of the scene photographed.
This is what makes a photographic image a work of art rather than a snapshot.

I believe a snapshot can be a work of art. Photography is probably the only medium where you can luck into a masterpiece. Right time, right place can go a long way.

Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona

JohnSwanda wrote:

I believe a snapshot can be a work of art. Photography is probably the only medium where you can luck into a masterpiece. Right time, right place can go a long way.

Who was it who said "I'd rather be lucky than good"?

MrPhotog

Harry13 wrote:

"Not only is the use vs non-use of a camera irrelevant...."

Au contraire, it is everything. A painting is not a photograph and neither are images not made with a camera. Why are you guys in such a twist about this?

There are photographs made without cameras. Since the word ‘photo graph’ translates roughly to ‘writing with light’, images made without lenses or pinholes are included.

Man Ray is a well known photographer whose ‘Rayographs’ were made by exposing photo-sensitized paper to light, without a camera. X-rays are another area where cameras are not used.

Literally writing with light is a process where a computer directs a laser to create an image directly on a sheet of film. This is used commercially in making negatives that are then used to create offset printing plates.

Replace the gelatin-based film with another photo sensitive material, a static-charged selenium surface, and you have the basis for Xerography, used in computer laser printers—so laser printed photos are more likely photos than ink jet printed ones.

srg

sippyjug104 wrote:

Many women enhance their appearance. When they don't do we refer to them as "straight out of waking up"?😁

SOOWU?

Miker999

We are all artists and we each use the tools that fit our needs. If I adjust H,S,WB and more, BEFORE I take the shot, it's still editing, just prior, instead of after. So does that mean it's not SOOC? Who really cares? The important thing is if YOU like what you produce. It's YOUR vision of the subject. Only other photographers care about how an image was produced. The average person is just looking at the content.
(For the record: I started in 1981 Went digital in 2003. Back then, you had to shoot raw and work to get an acceptable image. That is no longer true in most cases. I've even gone back from FF to APS-C. The current camera and sensor tech is amazing) The most important thing is to enjoy what you do!

MJPerini

zonedoc wrote:

The late great photographer Ansel Adams ( who was also a classically trained pianist ) often likened a photograph to a musical score to be interpreted by the musician (photographer ).
His photographs were “previsualized” so as to make post processing a creation of his interpretation of the scene photographed.
This is what makes a photographic image a work of art rather than a snapshot.

''''The Negative was the Score, the Print was the Performance" very apt comparison

User ID

Harry13 wrote:

"Not only is the use vs non-use of a camera i... (show quote)

Theres an entire genre of paintings that are photographs originated via use of a camera and then tediously transferred to canvas, by brush, with perfectionist skill level, but with absolutely zero creative intervention.

revhen Loc: By the beautiful Hudson

As my dear wife would say, "Are we having fun yet?" And still saying it.

larryepage Loc: North Texas area

User ID wrote:

Theres an entire genre of paintings that are photographs originated via use of a camera and then tediously transferred to canvas, by brush, with perfectionist skill level, but with absolutely zero creative intervention.

Not all paintings done from reference photographs are pictorials. I know several really good, really creative painters who routinely work from reference material. One actually used a photograph of me to do a drawing of me as a demo for a class she was teaching. When finished, she was able to show the class both the photo and her drawing and showed them where she remained true to the photo and where she took artistic liberties. It was a lot of fun watching her work and listening to her commentary.

To me pictorialism is no less honorable than photography where the primary goal is absolute sharpness. And reference photos are very commonly used as sources for subjects that are difficult or dangerous to access or where conditions change rapidly and it would be difficult to work from life over a long period. Since the reference serves as a reminder, it does not limit creative thinking and work any more than sitting in situ for an extended period. Some artists combine life and reference. They may do their initial sketch or drawing on the canvas from life, return to the studio to build the painting's structure, then return to do final detail from direct observation. Or they may have a different sequence that suits them better.

Watercolorists very frequently work from reference material. Watercolor is very commonly done flat on a table, and painting is done in "color order," from light to dark. Try that from life. Then the artwork must be carefully transferred to the drying rack without tilting it and causing the colors to run.

Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC

"...that I have... ...no musical instruments." So sad 13...
I can go days or even weeks without picking up my photo kit...
Yet even one single day without playing my acoustical Martin is simply one too many...
Feeling the rhythmic vibrations of vintage seasoned Brazilian Rosewood and close grain Alpine Spruce resonating against my sternum is far, far better than other earthly encounter I've ever shared...
Martin's haunting sustain is absolute and unequivocally pure magic...

It is so breathtakingly wonderful to fill my world with the magic of Music! It's dynamics, form, harmony, melody, rhythm, texture, timbre and tonality. Such an ultimate high unmatched by anything else I've ever experienced.

Yet even this joy pales when compared to the creation of music as a member of a collaborative ensemble playing together in superbly metered syncopation, rhythm, with poetic rhyming vocals in perfect harmony...

This my friend is truly an ethereal moment like no other... Absolute Euphoria!

So sad 13 "...that I have... ...no musical instruments." So very sad indeed...

Talent: A 13 year old busker; Instrument: C.F. Martin acoustical Guitar (Made in Nazareth, Pennsylvania)

(Download)

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

Thomas902 wrote:

" i ...that I have... ...no musical instrume... (show quote)

I have no musical instruments either. I love music, and if I could have done anything I would have been a musician. But I was born with no gifts for music besides appreciation. My mother had me take piano lessons, I took accordion lessons because my father played it, and I played clarinet in the high school band. But on all of them my lack of digital dexterity meant I could never get past just trying to hit the right notes, much less putting any feeling into it. I can't sing in tune to save my life, and I had terrible stage fright. I also was unable to draw or paint, also my lack of digital dexterity. I wondered if I could do anything in the arts until I discovered I seemed to have a natural talent for photography. So I am in awe of great musicians.