tgreenhaw

I updated my firmware to 1.8.1 to try this interesting feature.

The R5 400 megapixel IBIS Hi Res. mode is incredibly sensitive to camera motion. After much testing I have learned that even minute floor vibrations or anything else that impacts sharpness yields results that are worse than standard resolution. Even a 2 second delay wasn't enough and I used the 10 second delay to allow time for the tripod to stop ringing (I was t0o lazy to hook up the remote shutter release)

However if used correctly, it is a powerful tool for certain specific use cases, e.g. art reproduction or dealing with moire in things like fabrics.

It is a rare use case that requires a full resolution 400 megapixel image and for those use cases using something like Gigapixel AI to upscale will likely produce superior results.

That being said, when downsampling a 400MP image using Photoshop, the results are significantly better than standard resolution. The biggest impact is noise reduction without loss of sharpness because the stitching process averages the pixels and solid areas are buttery smooth and in high contrast zones aliasing is less noticeable.
There is no need for disagreement as to the utility of this new capability. When you understand how it works and how and when to use it. It is another useful tool that Canon gives us to produce photographs.

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

Pretty amazing.
Thank you for sharing this insight and results. I see Canon updating this to not be so motion sensitive.
The R5 seems to be the development platform for the R cameras and as new things are developed it gets the nod so far this is great.

gwilliams6

FYI, there is pixel shift in both the new fullframe 61mp Sony A7RV and in some micro 4/3rds cameras that does compensate for subject motion during pixel shift capture.

I am sure eventually Canon will catch on to that for its pixel shift.

Cheers and best to you all.

PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA

Interesting

tgreenhaw

LOL - I suppose it's possible but strongly suspect both brands have the same challenges for this feature. We can both likely cite opinions of the superiority of each brand. What is important to note is that shooting and testing at this extreme requires extreme attention to detail of every aspect of shooting conditions - especially absolute rock solid no motion whatsoever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zn0YgwR1Q

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=36140&Title=Round-2-Is-Canons-In-Body-Image-Stabilization-Better-than-Sonys-EOS-R5-vs--Alpha-1-Comparison

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

They are also no where even close to 400mp either.

Just like Canon nearly immediately far exceeded OM and Sony af capabilites and speed with just the second generation mirrorless, the R5.
Also exceeded Sony video capabilites.

tgreenhaw

I hope this isn't going to devolve into a brand war thread. I'm sure both brands have their advantages and disadvantages. In fact I would expect a camera that cost almost 50% more to be better.

I'm just trying to point out that if you want to use IBIS Hi Res or pixel shift - you must be sure that the camera and subject are absolutely stable without any motion whatsoever.

If anybody else has worked to use this feature, regardless of brand, I'd love to learn more about better technique.

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

User ID

200MP is verrrrry close to 400MP. 40% is no major gain in resolution, especially at these extreme levels.

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

Just drop it, as the op says start your own discussion on how crappy your Sony is, this is discussing the fun and excitement of the R5 and 400mp pixel shift.

User ID

200MP is verrrrrrrry close to 400MP. A 40% gain in resolution is nothing really big, especially at these extreme levels.

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(Download)

gwilliams6

The motion compensation in pixel shift in the A7RV and some micro 4/3rds cameras has NOTHING to do with their IBIS abilities. Their special image proprietary software uses AI and looks at the images and compensates for any subject movement in successive images in pixel shift. It works for both the Sony A7RV and Sony A1 pixel shift images. .

I am sure in Canon's next version of pixel shift, they will have it also. No single brand has the best of every feature, not even Canon, which I shot with for over 40 years.

DPReview: "The new motion compensation for pixel shift images announced with the Sony A7RV also works with the Sony A1 pixel shift. Even tiny movements down to single-pixel level can be detected and compensated for by the Sony proprietary software performing the compositing. " Jan 31, 2023

Sometimes you need to do more complete and thorough research and understand better before posting data that has NOTHING to do with my comment. And you should know that T&C Northrup often rush out the box first to grab those clicks and make more money, and sometimes they dont have the whole story and even get it wrong sometimes. And we are NOT talking at all about IBIS here.

Sony 50mp A1 and 61mp A7RV can do from four to sixteen individual pixel shift shots for their pixel shift composited image. You do the math on that, and tell me what total final resolution is possible and compare that number to Canon's 400 mp.

Cheers and best to you.

tgreenhaw

Nonsense. Not only does pixel shift have everything to do with IBIS, the Sony camera processors do not appear to perform anything. It is an offline process that uses a Sony app on a computer. Moreover it is not AI, it employs neither machine learning or neural networks. It is an algorithm that averages the multiple shots and combines that with a single 50 megapixel frame where motion blur is detected in a portion of the images.
If you would take the time to watch the Youtube link provided where a technical comparison is made between the Sony and Canon systems, you would see that Canon has superior compensation for motion compensation as well as all processing in camera on the fly as opposed to an unproductive workflow that requires time consuming post processing on a computer with the current Sony approach.

But that isn't the point at all. No amount of motion compensation works for this tool on either system. The camera and subject must be absolutely motionless during capture to achieve the best results.

What I really am interested in learning, regardless of which brand of camera is used how and if others are using this successfully and for what application, e.g. art reproduction.

Why do both approaches have an obvious diffusion dither in the circle of confusion for image boundaries?

gwilliams6

I never said it was all done in-camera, duh, but the in-camera processor and software in the A7RV and A1 does encodes the pixel shift images so that using the proprietary Imaging Edge software in post it does the compensation even at the single pixel level. Read up on it at DPReview, you dont have to take my word for it. I take DPReview testing over T&C Northrup testing any day. I am happy that at least Chris and Jordan have found a new home at PetaPixel.

DPReview on the Sony A7RV:
"Pixel Shift mode
As with the last few a7R cameras, the V offers a pixel shift high-resolution mode. There are two options: four shots that just cancel out the effect of the Bayer filter pattern, sampling every color at every position, or a 16-shot mode that does the same thing four times with slight offsets to capture the detail between the original pixel positions. In both instances the Raws have to be combined using desktop software.

As before the 16-shot mode can deliver very impressive levels of detail if your tripod and subject are static. The noise-averaging effect of combining so many exposures also boosts image quality. As seen further up the page, the a7R V gains an option to correct for some camera and subject movement. This tends to mean less high levels of detail in areas where there's been some movement, but avoids the crosshatched glitches that the mode was formerly prone to in much real-world shooting, making it a far more useful tool outside the studio."

If it was all just about the post production software ONLY as you think, then the 61mp Sony A7RIV and the 42mp A7RIII which also do pixel shift could use the new motion compensation, but they cant, only the A1 and A7RV. The newer A1 and A7RV have the newer Sony processors and their newer software in-camera. Yes you can do some of the same combining of pixel shift images in PS with any Sony camera that does the pixel shift. But the latest updated Sony Imaging Edge Software is made to work to get the most out of the newer Sony bodies with their newer, better pixel shift.

Whether it is better or worse than Canon's or Nikon's or Panasonic's fullframe pixel shift versions is up for debate and more testing. They all work, and that is what matters.

Cheers and best to you.