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Atomic Clocks
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Nov 9, 2022 17:12:14   #
fhayes Loc: Madison, Tennessee
 
gpc wrote:
Same guy?

Hahahahaha! I would venture a yes!

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Nov 10, 2022 07:03:42   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
I'm going to reset those two atomic clocks manually today.

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Nov 10, 2022 07:38:51   #
BebuLamar
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I'm going to reset those two atomic clocks manually today.


If it doesn't reset it means that the radio signal is too bad and it can't receive the signal to synchronize the clock. It continues to run on its own quartz timing which is quite accurate but can be off a second or so in a couple of days. So your clock may not have the correct time. Check it agaist your phone and see if it's off by a number of seconds. If so it's not receiving radio signal for quite sometimes. I think most of them clocks and watches are designed to sync once a day if it can receive the signal.

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Nov 10, 2022 08:09:27   #
nimbushopper Loc: Tampa, FL
 
BebuLamar wrote:
If it doesn't reset it means that the radio signal is too bad and it can't receive the signal to synchronize the clock. It continues to run on its own quartz timing which is quite accurate but can be off a second or so in a couple of days. So your clock may not have the correct time. Check it agaist your phone and see if it's off by a number of seconds. If so it's not receiving radio signal for quite sometimes. I think most of them clocks and watches are designed to sync once a day if it can receive the signal.
If it doesn't reset it means that the radio signal... (show quote)


I have found that my cell phone is always a few seconds off from the atomic clocks I have. My clocks have a strength meter so I know when they are getting a good signal. They usually synch at night.

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Nov 10, 2022 08:21:03   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Microsecond timing is essential for so many things, but "close enough" is good enough for me.

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Nov 10, 2022 08:53:05   #
BebuLamar
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Microsecond timing is essential for so many things, but "close enough" is good enough for me.


I don't mean nit picking but I would want to determine if the clock can sync to the atomic clock or it's running on its own timing circuit (for the most part accurate enough but then you don't need the atomic clock).

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Nov 10, 2022 12:20:57   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Red6 wrote:
I would be surprised if the costs to maintain the station(s) were that low. These stations are quite complex with atomic clocks along with powerful transmitters covering several frequencies. These systems require lots of attention and maintenance, especially the antenna systems. There are three different operations going on, WWV, WWVH, and WWVB.

WWV covers 2.5, 5, 10, 15, and 20 Mhz. There are transmitters and antennas for each of the frequencies. Since these are low frequencies the antenna systems are very large and require lots of maintenance on a regular basis. This is the main station here in the US. In reality, each transmission frequency could be considered a radio station since each requires it own transmitter and antenna system. A commercial radio station usually has only one frequency which requires only one active transmitter and antenna.

WWVH is a twin of WWV but is located in Hawaii.

WWVB is a very low-frequency transmitter that transmits signals to set your local clocks. It transmits at the low frequency of 60Khz. Again, it has its own transmitter and antenna system.

It had been proposed to defund WWV, WWVH and WWVB in 2019 but that proposal was dropped. If the costs to operate these 11 radio stations was only $23 million that is one of the best deals the government has ever entered. These systems provide not only time but also frequency standards for many other radio systems all over the world. They would be greatly missed in many applications. But many of these operations are now being accomplished through satellites, often GPS satellites. However, many argue that depending on satellite transmissions so vulnerable to jamming or solar weather is a huge risk. The FAA has also rolled the dice on this issue moving much of the air navigation system to satellites with little or no backup.

These actions do save money but at increased risk. Solar flares could take out many of our satellites at any time, and China is boosting its anti-satellite weaponry and jamming capabilities. Without ground stations to back up these services, we could be very vulnerable.
I would be surprised if the costs to maintain the ... (show quote)


Agree completely. an enemy killing the constellation of GPS satellites would cause havoc with many modern weapon systems, not to mention aircraft and marine navigation. We’ve come to rely heavily on GPS, assuming it will always be operational.

I do really hope they never disable WWV - it’s super stable and reliable time and frequency standards are very useful. When I first started in ham radio in the 50s, you could always rely on WWV on 10 MHz as the one solid signal you could use to peak up the IF and RF amps in your receiver and check frequency. Even now, if I want to know the exact time auickly, I just tune to WWV on 15 MHz. As an alternate, there’s always CHU Canada and internet time standards.

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Nov 10, 2022 13:54:11   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
TriX wrote:
Agree completely. an enemy killing the constellation of GPS satellites would cause havoc with many modern weapon systems, not to mention aircraft and marine navigation. We’ve come to rely heavily on GPS, assuming it will always be operational.


The space junk created by destroying a couple of satellites would create havoc for the remaining satellites. Look at what happened when China decided to destroy one of its own satellites - a real mess.

Although satellites give us a huge advantage against less developed countries, in a conflict with Russia or China, our satellites would be gone in an instant. We'd be back to WW II technology.

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Nov 10, 2022 15:49:15   #
nimbushopper Loc: Tampa, FL
 
TriX wrote:
Agree completely. an enemy killing the constellation of GPS satellites would cause havoc with many modern weapon systems, not to mention aircraft and marine navigation. We’ve come to rely heavily on GPS, assuming it will always be operational.

I do really hope they never disable WWV - it’s super stable and reliable time and frequency standards are very useful. When I first started in ham radio in the 50s, you could always rely on WWV on 10 MHz as the one solid signal you could use to peak up the IF and RF amps in your receiver and check frequency. Even now, if I want to know the exact time auickly, I just tune to WWV on 15 MHz. As an alternate, there’s always CHU Canada and internet time standards.
Agree completely. an enemy killing the constellati... (show quote)


The sound of WWV was mesmerizing and when I flew long range patrol for the Navy 50 years ago we set our chronometers to it because we had to use celestial navigation and for every second your chronometer was off your fix would be off by a mile!

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Nov 10, 2022 16:23:32   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
nimbushopper wrote:
The sound of WWV was mesmerizing and when I flew long range patrol for the Navy 50 years ago we set our chronometers to it because we had to use celestial navigation and for every second your chronometer was off your fix would be off by a mile!


Yes indeed. As a recreational sailor, I learned celestial navigation from a Navy Chief who was stationed at the naval reserve/ROTC center at the Univ of NC. We could use the planetarium there to see what the Southern Hemisphere looked like. While I own and can use a sextant, I never owned a boat large and stable enough to shoot morning and evening stars.

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Nov 11, 2022 09:26:41   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
TriX wrote:
Yes indeed. As a recreational sailor, I learned celestial navigation from a Navy Chief who was stationed at the naval reserve/ROTC center at the Univ of NC. We could use the planetarium there to see what the Southern Hemisphere looked like. While I own and can use a sextant, I never owned a boat large and stable enough to shoot morning and evening stars.


I liked sailing on a lake. I couldn't get lost.

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Nov 11, 2022 09:40:00   #
BebuLamar
 
I can't receive WWV broadcast any more here around the Dallas TX area. I guess I need a better radio. I used to have the Radio Shack time cube and it works quite well. Now I have the Sony ICF-SW15 and it only sometimes barely receive it at the 10Mhz frequency.

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Nov 11, 2022 10:11:14   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I can't receive WWV broadcast any more here around the Dallas TX area. I guess I need a better radio. I used to have the Radio Shack time cube and it works quite well. Now I have the Sony ICF-SW15 and it only sometimes barely receive it at the 10Mhz frequency.


Try 15 MHz (or 5 MHz at night). LONG ago, when I was in my teens, the 10 MHz signal was the loudest thing in my location in the SW bands, but now, I use 15 MHz instead. I presume they changed the power or the antennas type/orientation.

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Nov 11, 2022 11:42:57   #
twowindsbear
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I can't receive WWV broadcast any more here around the Dallas TX area. I guess I need a better radio. I used to have the Radio Shack time cube and it works quite well. Now I have the Sony ICF-SW15 and it only sometimes barely receive it at the 10Mhz frequency.


maybe just a better antenna with a better orientation toward the WWV transmitter's site?

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Nov 12, 2022 15:15:19   #
topcat Loc: Alameda, CA
 
My atomic wristwatch didn't change, I had to do it manually. My atomic wall clock did.

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